joeslacksOnce again, Thanks for all the suggestions here. I will try to clear a couple of things up . . .
It is definitely two plastic layers, each about 2-3mm thick, they look to have been bonded with a resin of some sort
The ‘possible wire and plate’ seen at the 2 o’clock position is in fact a modern paper ID label with string – there were no wires that i remember
It was found in the middle of a field when crops were being harvested by hand – there are a few crash sites near by but it doesn’t belong to any of the aircraft that are known to have crashed locally. There was lots of aerial combat over this area in early to mid WW2 – i have many eyewitnesses that confirm this
Nearest German crashes are (South) He111 and Ju88 at Bishops Stortford. (North) Ju88 at Ashwell and Dornier 217 at Orwell (from which i have a BMW engine) it doesn’t match any of them.
It could easily have dropped from an aircraft that continued on it’s way without it – happened everyday in wartime!
I could list all the aircraft that i know it didn’t come from – But i suspect it would take a few pages!
I’m not grabbing at straws to make it Luftwaffe, I simply couldn’t find a match for this thing on any of the contemporary allied aircraft that i looked at, British or US.
When i started checking Luftwaffe aircraft i saw a couple of potential matches in the noses of the earlier Do17s. I know very little about Luftwaffe aircraft so i figured the best option would be to appeal to help from the masses! I’ve seen some good suggestions, not all Luftwaffe –
aeronut suggested Wellington MKV. I have to confess that i had never even seen one until i looked it up yesterday but it does have a similar bubble for the cockpit area. I was unable to find and really decent pics online to look further into it.
CeBro – As far as i am aware the B-29s didn’t make it over here until after the war, though i believe they were based locally at Bassingbourn with B-50s so not an impossibility. Its the dates that trouble me there.
I’m intrigued by the suggestion that it could be some sort of radome or nightfighter related device. I hadn’t thought of that, which is exactly why these forums are a great place to throw ideas around!
I am seeing a Chap tomorrow who lives a few doors up from the lady that owns it (i believe her mother found it). I’m going to see if i can get access to the thing, possibly even borrow it for a week or two and do some proper research.
I just can’t let it go on being a mystery and i feel that if i don’t make the effort to try and solve it now, perhaps nobody ever will! I’m not bothered if it is Luftwaffe, RAF, or US, or even if its post war and somebody got their stories mixed up (though i have no reason to think this the case)! The main thing is to know for sure and to put a label with the thing correctly identifying it.
Any further suggestions will be gratefully received and i will do my best to get some more solid info up on size, shape, construction etc, as soon as i can!
Joeslacks
joeslacksThanks again for all the input here. I’m not so convinced on the idea of it being Dornier, The nearest match seems to be Dorniers that apparently wern’t flying over England. It doesn’t appear to have the straight edges seen on the M/P variant. Any other contenders? I looked at so many ww2 Aircraft but very few have a one piece Dome like this. I can confirm that it was found in a field during early WW2 and it came from an Aircraft of some description.
I do remember it being quite a shallow depth considering the diameter which is why it looked odd to me and intrigued me . The picture doesn’t show too well and it was a few years ago since i’ve seen it.
I reckon the only way to take this further is if i go and measure the thing properly and take some decent photographs! Unless anybody recognizes this one piece type Dome from any other aircraft that would have been operating over North Hertfordshire/Essex border during WW2? I’m running out of clues!
joeslacksIt seems it was possible to remove the nose glazing . . .
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joeslacksThanks for the response so far. I was thinking along the same lines as Mahone/Supermarine305. Canberra nose is more pointed and besides, it’s way out of the dates given. The Pre – Z series Dornier was the nearest looking nose glazing that i have managed to find so far. This Pic is apparently a Do17E, you can see that the nose piece is round all the way to the bottom, no flat parts. I havent found a decent pic of an M or P yet to compare. Does anybody know if they double skinned those noses?
>> It also would appear to have a (black?) beading of some sort running around the outside – similar to the relic in my first pic
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joeslacksFilm of the Blenheim flying today can be found here: http://youtu.be/27P3o0jAUSs
Sorry it’s a little shaky, i did try smoothing it out in edit but for some reason it went very grainy so i have reverted to the original footage with no wobble correction. If i can sort out the wobble i will re-upload when i get time. Enjoy!:cool:
joeslacksBlenheim was flying today. Flew over my place about 10 mins ago (12.15ish), went round in circuits for a good 10 mins allowing me ample time to grab video camera and get some reasonable footage. I will upload to youtube tonight if anyone is interested. What an absolute treat!
joeslacksSimply Stunning! That goes for the dedication of those who made this happen, and the quality of the result of their efforts.
What a sight and sound it will be when she takes to the skies once again
I remember many years ago visiting Duxford with a friend of mine when we were 12 or 13 years old. At the time, the Blenheim project had a really rough, un-restored nose section sitting in front of the airframe that was undergoing rebuild. My 12 year old friend asked one of the chaps working ‘what are you doing with that scrap nose’? He answered, telling us that it was to be used for making patterns of the parts so that new pieces could be fabricated. My friend then replied ‘so you’re not actually using it then’? his face and eyes lighting up with excitement. ‘Not this actual nose piece as you see it, no. It’s too far gone’ was the response from said worker. I still remember my friend straightening himself up and taking a deep breath. Then, as a hopeful child might ask for his dream toy in the toy shop, he looked the guy right in the eyes and asked ‘Can i please have it when you have finished with it? Please, I’d really love to have it when you’ve finished with it’?
As you can probably guess, the answer was a very polite ‘no’! But i will never forget the admiration i held for my friend for having the confidence to be so bold as to ask the question. It taught me that in life – if you don’t ask – you don’t get – And even if the answer is no, it is worth asking anyway.
I have seen the many phases of the Duxford Blenheim since the 1980s and it really is fantastic to see her coming to life once again
joeslacksI have used white vinegar to some success. I just empty a few bottles into a plastic container and place parts in there. Cillit Bang grime and lime (orange top one) works wonders on some parts but stinks and you must wear gloves or your hands will go red and sore and the skin dries and falls off! If parts are too big to soak, try wrapping the affected area with srpips of old towel and soak them in vinegar or Cillit Bang. This will prevent it from drying out too fast. Keep giving it the odd go with the soft wire brush as the process goes along, getting the worst off when it softens makes things quicker.
I have also used watered down brick cleaning acid but it needs mixing right and being hydrochloric, works better on iron oxide. Small soft Brass wire brush puts the shine back afterwards.
joeslacksAlaska? I’d suggest you ask Santa to bring you an Atlas this December! 🙂
Who moved Alaska! Fair point, Next time you want a Mossie lost over East Russia, give me a call and i’ll draw a flight plan
joeslacksI should imagine that if they did fly it over, it would be done in a series of ‘hops’ from Canada – Alaska – Greenland – Iceland and finally, U.K. Many a smaller single engine aircraft fly this route. It is not without it’s dangers but does allow for landing, refueling along the way provided bad weather doesn’t get involved! The Kermit Weeks Mossie was flown to the US via this route. It did suffer a failure of the supercharger on final approach to landing in Florida so the journey did take a lot out of the old girl. There are risks involved whichever way you choose to transport it. It was designed to fly, i say fly it. Just be prepared for everything to go wrong and be patient. Better late than never!
joeslacksNice picture! When I first read it, I thought you meant the one from Duxford in Melbourn, Cambs…
So – you’ve finished the front bit – just the rear part left to do 😉
No such luck! I live in Fowlmere near to Melbourn and Duxford. I would be MORE than willing to be stuck behind this beauty for a few hours!
Duxford have not yet decided to take their example for a walk around the local area but if they do, i will be sure to let everyone know!
Great work with the resto guys!
joeslacksI agree that the pitch of the blades cannot be relied upon due to the nature of the impact, though i still feel there may be something in it.
I am in the process of trying to track down the reports but nothing has surfaced as yet.
Haven’t yet obtained the 1180 or AM F-412 / F-765 but work in progress. I’m led to believe that if there was a full investigation the report is now lost, along with all the accident reports for RAF aircraft from the end of Jan 44 through to the end of Dec 44.
Off to the Mosquito Museum in the morning armed with multiple cameras and a list of questions. More parts to ID coming soon, i’ll just see how i get on tomorrow first.
joeslacksInterestingly, this Aircraft i am researching, LR343 was a potential stablemate of HR339, having been with RNZAF 487sq at Hunsdon until its demise 24.02.44 (i say potential because it could never have happened as LR343 was destroyed before HR339 arrived)
joeslacksAlso, Note there is a big chunk missing out of the back of the propeller blade. Is it possible that the damage occurred when the engine separated from the aircraft, possibly ripping through a wing in the process? this could explain the ‘snowing wood’ as described by eyewitnesses? One eyewitness (an American P.38 Pilot on finals) described the Mossie as going across his nose ‘like a bat out of hell’ before breaking apart. I should imagine that, being a pilot himself, he would be a good judge of speed and wouldn’t say that unless it was going at a considerable pace. Eyewitness on the ground says he heard an aircraft making ‘one hell of a screaming racket’ He looked up to hear a whoomph as the aircraft ‘exploded and rained to earth in tiny pieces
I’m currently working on the theory that the aircraft possibly experienced a runaway prop or over rev on the Port engine. If the Pilot was unable to control this through engine RPM or Propeller pitch control, the vibration that followed could quickly cause the engine to break free from it’s mountings. A complete mosquito engine assembly (like you see in the above photograph) is essentially being held on with just 4 big bolts. It is also possible that the engine then went through the Port wing, causing total loss of control from that point. Does the photo add any weight to these ideas?
joeslacksWhat can this photo tell us?
Thanks P&P for the confirmation on that. The aircraft was reported to have broken up in mid air. eyewitness states that it ‘exploded in the air, wood flakes came down like snow’. The crash photos show that one engine separated from the airframe in flight and landed fairly undamaged some distance from the main impact site. It looks (from the post crash photographs) as though the main body of the aircraft hit the ground with one engine still in place. The fuselage from the nose to aft of the centre section and one engine ended up in one impact hole, whilst the Empennage broke free on impact, snapping off horizontal and vertical stabilizers and compressed into a ball, rolling some distance from the impact site.
That cooling pipe was found some 150+yards from the main impact site in the approximate area where the separated engine was reported to have landed. This may well help point towards it being the Port engine that separated in flight.
The following is the photograph of the engine that separated and landed away from the main impact site. A few questions on this one.
It looks to me as though there is a lot of pitch on that propeller, almost to the point of it being partially feathered? I also noted that the prop blade is bent sideways, but not backwards, showing that the propeller was possibly still turning on impact with something, it almost looks like it has slashed through the tree roots as it landed. The lack of damage to the front of the exhaust cowling is surprising and the way the engine sits in the hole suggests that it ‘dropped in’ rather than ‘ploughed in’. I have been unable to confirm if this is the Left or Right engine, does anything in the picture help? Any thoughts welcomed!
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