“All quiet on the Western Front”…eh?

Shay
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Semper Fortis

The story has hit CNN now.

http://security.blogs.cnn.com/2012/05/11/british-plane-in-egypt//

Shay
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Semper Fortis

@ SHEPSAIR – I certainly hope Jakub is able to post them back up. These pictures taken are more historically valuable than most probalbly assume. Especially the inital find pictures. They document so many things that I’m afraid are lost now. Things that are unique to an aircraft operating out in a harsh enviroment. Changes made post-factory that were adaptations due to the theatre and squadron it was in. Such things may not have ever been documented before or just lost in obscurity. One could sit and stare for long while picking out the details.

I think a big hardy “Thanks” is appropriate for Jakub and his efforts to bring this P-40 to the World’s attention.

Shay
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How come there hasn’t been any media attention? (none that I’m aware of) There are tons of new media outlets, online and not, regergitating the same soggy Burmese Spitfire stories over and over again. But not one mention of this facinating story. Not a single peep in the news.

EXTRA EXTRA, READ ALL ABOUT IT!!! “Lost Fighter Found in Desert After 70 Years” “Evidence of Lost Pilot’s Bleak Last Moments Found” “Royal Air Force Pilot’s Fight to Stay Alive in the Eygptian Desert” “Ignorant Locals Stealing and Destroying WW2 Time Capsule Fighter”

I’d sure tune-in. Maybe what this Kittyhawk needs is more mainstream attention besides Wing-nuts and Modelers websites.

Shay
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When Shay gave us the LG coordinates I put them into Google earth to have a look at any photos posted and saw the arrow you mentioned as in the link
http://www.panoramio.com/photo/27625168
It is 200 miles East of LG-185, but on the same radius from LG-106
It is amazing at the number of WWII army trucks still out there, also pictured on Google earth.

If anyone is interested, here is where I got the coordinates from:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_World_War_II_North_Africa_Airfields

There are plenty more and I entered EVERY one of the them into my copy of Google Earth. It was neat as it gave yet another glimpse into the war that most never think of beyond the text book. Accuracy i found in some cases isn’t the greatest but you get the idea.

Regarding that arrow. I saw that while strolling through GE. I know the caption says Old Air Field but that’s exactly the type of signal I’d expect from a downed pilot.

At the “8 Bells” location (22°46’58.57″N, 26°16’12.31″E ) The landing strip arrow and sign are made out of old British? gas cans?

From Panaranmio

There’s a lot of desert out there and I doubt this will be the last relic to make a splash. It is amazzing the state of preservation of the Kittyhawk from the pics. I do wonder though after 70 years of intense UV how brittle items like the canavs, plexi, bakelite and plastic peices have become.

Shepsair – Do you know if that satilite image is referenced to true north? I figured based on the Sun’s shadows and the time stamps of the various pictures provided that the Kittyhawk was pointing South. Maybe slightly South East, but not staight east.

Thx

Shay
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Semper Fortis

I think the pilot recovery is paramount – recovery of the aircraft is secondary.

Bruce

Absolutely agree.

I hope before the aircraft is moved that a trained team goes in and looks for clues as to the where abouts of the pilot.

Does anyone know, has there been an over flight of the crash site area to see if the pilot made a marker or a signal that could be seen from the air?

In my mind this would have been one of the first things the pilot might have done as this is where likely help would have come from. Or in the very least tell rescuers what direction he walked off in.

What Commonwealth WW2 manual would have covered desert survival for pilots? And is there an online copy?

Anyone else notice the external rear view mirror has been removed? Perhaps he took it for signalling.

Also the aerial mast and the antenna wire at the tail appeared to have been removed not ripped out. Perhaps he used the wire for rigging up the radio or after he left the aircraft he used it for a snare to eat. Just thought it was worthy of noting that it looked cleanly removed.

Shay
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Re difference beween LG.009 and LG.106 you have to remember Kttyhawk Pilot was written 40 years later using the memories and log books of Stocky Edwards and the data then available. It is likely they looked at the date and assumed Copping was evacuating with the rest of them when he went missing. However, we also know that the aircraft he was flying ET574 was also supposed to be damaged, flying with its undercarriage down and on its way to a repair unit. It is likely he was told to fly the not so lame duck back to a repair unit further way.

Agreed, facts and memories rarely align 100%.

So I revisited the list of Landing Grounds and I discovered something. As I stated before, LG-009 (30°58′0″N 28°12′0″E) and LG-106 (30°58′0″N 28°39′0″E) are only 25+ miles apart. But there was another “LG-9”. LG-185 at one time was called LG-9 and it’s location (23°32′0″N 23°50′0″E) is south west of LG-106, in Libya. In fact if all the location coordinates are correct, LG-9 and LG106 are 600+ miles apart. Still within the specified range of “clean” P-40E (650 miles), but just within with a margin of less than 50 miles. Could this be the correct LG-9?

Here is the intersting part, I find. If you plot a course from LG-9 to LG-106, the flightpath now takes you over the Al Wadi Al Jadid Desert. To me this makes more sense now. As someone mentioned here earlier, with fixed landing gear what would the range have been? Could Copping have jockied his fuel settings and flying characteristics in the hopes of making it to LG-106 or an alternate field?

Paul I agree it seems, as always there is more to the story. Of course this conjecture is all dependent on the the accuracy of it’s original author.

Shay
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Regarding the events of the F/Sgt Copping’s last flight. Please someone help me to understand. According to “Kittyhawk Pilot”: On the night of the 28th No. 260 was evacuting LG.09? And flying to LG.106? Am I understanding this correctly?

I have not been able to find a location listed for LG.09, where is it’s present day location?

And LG 106 is/was in or around El Daba?

Thanks

Shay
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Semper Fortis