Incredible…

Not that much… It’s a very familiar situation for anyone interested in the Rafale and its tribulations. 😀

why would a Rafale pilot turn its radar on and risk being detected by the AN/ALR-94, while it could use OSF (of which the F22 lacks an equvalent btw) completely passively instead?

Maybe because the FAF pilots were given the opportunity to evaluate the VLO characteristics of the F-22? (Wasn’t it the first time Rafales encounter Raptors?)

Given that:
1) every argument against Collins’ credibility had already been found,
2) KeyPub is an English speaking website where Anglo-Saxons far outweigh us darn Frogs,
3) fighter issues are much more prone to fanboyism and speculation than any other military issue, and
4) Dare2 has been banned (and I, for one, won’t replace him)…

…I don’t see any flamewar igniting here in the coming hours. Or the win will be easily predictable. 😉

———–

On a side note, I think FlightGlobal asked Collins to emphasize his praise for the Rafale to make Boeing, EADS, LockMart and Saab offer him to write a similar report for their respective fighters. FlightGlobal would then be the only medium able to provide REAL comparisons to the public when it comes to these aircraft, and many people would pay for being allowed to read Collins’ conclusions.

If I was a plane maker and were sure my plane is superior to the Rafale, the best way to show it would be to offer Collins a flight test.
Anyway, aircraft makers don’t care about the average FlightGlobal reader’s opinion since the average FlightGlobal reader can’t buy such a beast… :rolleyes: and if an aircraft comes out as a winner, there will be suspicions of bribery (especially if it doesn’t originate from the US), whatever the quality of the reports.

France’s Dassault targets Lockheed in combat aircraft deal

http://www.business-standard.com/india/news/france/s-dassault-targets-lockheed-in-combat-aircraft-deal/364074

There’s trouble brewing…

France’s Dassault targets Lockheed in combat aircraft deal
Ajai Shukla / New Delhi July 16, 2009, 0:30 IST

The gloves are off in the competition to sell India 126 Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) for an estimated Rs 50,000 crore. Two days after Business Standard reported on the sudden replacement of Lockheed Martin India’s CEO, Lockheed’s French rival, Dassault Aviation — whose Rafale fighter is pitched against Lockheed Martin’s F-16 IN in the MMRCA tender — is contemplating asking the Indian Ministry of Defence (MoD) to disqualify Lockheed Martin from the tender. The reason: sources in Dassault allege that Lockheed Martin has illegally obtained access to classified documents relating to the competition.

Approached for details of Dassault’s decision, the company’s Indian representative, Pusina Rao, told Business Standard over the telephone from Paris, “Dassault executives are in discussions and will soon reach a final decision on what action it will initiate against Lockheed Martin. In any case, the French government will have the final word, since there are political repercussions involved.”

Rao declined to comment on how long it would take for Paris to approach the Indian MoD for action against Lockheed Martin.

Sources close to the MMRCA contract point out that tension has been growing between Dassault and Lockheed Martin since the end of 2008, when the Indian media reported that Dassault had been eliminated from the MMRCA contract because it had not fulfilled some of the technical requirements spelt out in the Indian tender. Weeks after the report — and apparently after French President Nikolas Sarkozy spoke to Prime Minister Manmohan Singh over the phone — it was announced that Dassault was very much in contention.

But Dassault believed that Lockheed Martin was responsible for those reports. Now, Dassault is determined to get back at Lockheed Martin, citing charges of corruption in clear violation of the guidelines in India’s Defence Procurement Policy-2008 (DPP-2008).

On Tuesday, reporting on Lockheed’s India CEO, Ambassador Douglas A Hartwick’s sudden recall to the US without the appointment of a replacement, Business Standard had quoted Lockheed Martin’s Asia Chief, Rick Kirkland, as saying that while Lockheed Martin had never possessed classified Indian procurement documents, the company’s US headquarters had written to the MoD in New Delhi seeking clarification over two “unclassified files” that had found their way into Lockheed’s possession.

The MMRCA competition is growing increasingly heated, with all six competitors — Lockheed Martin; Boeing; Dassault; Grippen; MiG; and Eurofighter — scheduled to produce their aircraft for flight testing by the Indian Air Force, turn by turn, starting this month.

…will it be a complete waste of effort?

Perhaps NG as a Volvo to extend the comparison?

This illustrates well the fair amount of American parts in it. Doesn’t the comparison remain valid with a, er… Saab? :p

No mention of India 🙁 😮 Dammit! This bird should be the top MRCA contender.

India is quoted in the 2nd paragraph (and Switzerland too) :

The AESA system, which will equip the next batch of about 60 Rafales to be built for the French air force and French navy, is also now included as a baseline offer to potential export customers for the multirole fighter, including Brazil, India and Switzerland.

hello Erakis! is your name pronounced like “Ee-raki?” sounds like Iraqi! 🙂

anyways thank you for the numbers. if true, why is the MICA so much more expensive than the AMRAAM!? Even the Exocet and Harpoon are a bit closer.

also seems like IRIS-T is twice as much as ASRAAM. Why did the Greeks chose IRIS T over ASRAAM?

Erakis is a red supergiant star known as “mu Cephei” or “Herschel’s Garnet star”. Now this may sound a bit pretentious but I just like the name. :p

I don’t know why the MICA is that expensive. I admit I was a bit astonished when I read the figures: at such a price it would be a shame if it isn’t the best A2A missile on the market… The interesting bit is that the report issued by the National Assembly of France (from which the figures were taken) also deals with the METEOR, and portrays it as a better alternative to the MICA. The reason given for giving the edge to the METEOR is that it’ll have a statoreactor and a better range (up to 150 km), but I think they try to get rid of the domestic MICA programme which is more expensive than a European collaborative programme (better cost sharing). The expected unit price of the METEOR does lie under the million-Euro mark, according to this report.

Yet the MICA has been bought by Greece, the UAE, Taiwan ROC and Qatar air forces. Either the MICA really is a good missile, or the price has been watered down for export versions… maybe a bit of the two. 😉

When it comes to the IRIS-T and ASRAAM, if you consider how the GBP-vs-EUR ratio was one or two years ago, the unit price of the IRIS-T doesn’t look so much different from the ASRAAM’s.

Erratum: the report from the French National Assembly was issued in 2005, not 2003; so the figures are in Euros of 2005.

I for one think that the CdG is a child of the Cold War – as someone here so correctly pointed out. That’s why the need for a 2nd aircraft carrier isn’t seen as obvious here.

In our days there are two threats a country’s military force could encounter: wars of 3rd generation (less and less likely) and wars of 4th generation (more and more likely).

For W3G, nuclear dissuasion is a key and for me the SSBNs + MIRVed SLBMs combo (or simply MIRVed ICBMs) is more efficient than any other combo, including nuclear carriers + Rafales + ASMP-A. That could explain why the French military credits are more concentrated on SSBNs than aircraft carriers, and how they succeeded in ensuring that 2 SSBNs are at sea at any time. Needless to say that they’re far from achieving such a milestone with their carrier force (one ship only, and it’s in dry dock 50% of the time – just like any French SSBN, but we have 4 of them just in case).

When it comes to W4G, however, it’s becoming more and more obvious that conventional weapons are of no use, as disappointed as the MIC may be. Terrorism and terrorism-driven wars have to be countered with top-notch intelligence (i.e. DST and DGSE for France) and special forces, not troop movement nor mass bombing.

That’s what the taxpayers agree to pay for: nuclear SLBMs and efficient intelligence agencies. Anything in-between is of marginal use: France (like any Western country) could live with a Taleban regime in Afghanistan as long as secret services make their job: infiltration, surveillance and prevention for pre-emptive action. I know it’s a bit more complicated than this, but that’s roughly what the average Frenchman thinks.