ADMK2AD,
thanks for sharing!
Interesting that Australia is getting the Harpoon for the SH.
Do you know if Australia is still showing some interest in the JSM for F-35?
A pity the F-22 had to return early though.
No probs. Yes, it was a matter of some discussion as to whether Australia would use the Harpoon Block II from it’s Super Hornets and with this show (and a few discussions with 1 Sqn pilots) it most certainly is available for use from the Rhinos.
RAAF has a project to acquire a new maritime strike weapon (maritime strike being a very important role for the ADF, given our geography) from about 2016 onwards, so I suspect that JSM and F-35 will very much be in the picture.
There are some US developments with JASSM/JSOW with maritime strike modes as well, so I suspect RAAF will be studying this issue for quite a few years now and will have a few options…
RAAF actually contributed some funding on the JSM as I recall a few years back, so I suspect it will have a pretty fair insight into the capabilities of that weapon and I bet it will be a very strong contender.
Particularly if it is sized to allow internal carriage on an F-35A…
It was a shame about the F-22As. They were still present for the public days of the show, but the display pilot wasn’t, meaning they were just there to “pretty the place up” a bit in reality.
Disappointing especially as the F-22 replaced the F-15C at the airshow this year, so we didn’t see F-15’s flying either! The only operational fast jets were RAAF Hornet and Super Hornets and USAF/RSAF F-16’s, which have been present (except for the Singaporean F-16’s) at every Avalon air show I’ve been to since 2003…
Oh well. Maybe next time… Hopefully in 2013 there will be an actual F-35 airframe too. Probably only static, but it’d be a nice display, sure to create plenty of “animated” discussion…
An RSAF F-15SG display would be a sweet deal too next time, but we’ll see…
ADMK2Awesome stuff AD:)
No dramas. I’m glad you enjoyed it.
Regards,
AD
ADMK2I can’t think of any French helicopters either. Mention of French aircraft in Aussie service brings to mind the Mirage III, which I always thought were a a great success in RAAF service?
AS350 Squirrels seem to have gone alright, but the MRH-90 is an absolute dogs breakfast.
Technicality. Big deal. Of course ours are assembled in Brisbane, but they are manufactured in “knock down kit” form in Marignane, where Eurocopter has it’s head office…
ADMK2Despite being described as the “centrepiece” of the 2011 Avalon Airshow, the F-35 Lightning II had a surprisingly small presence at the show. The only physical presence from the JSF program at the airshow was the F-35 and liftfan mockups that have been a regular feature of the show since 2005. With the Flight Test issues the JSF has experiences, it is no great surprise that an actual airframe wasn’t present for the show, but considering Australia’s strong support for the program, it was surprising the lack of involvement made by Lockheed Martin for this aspect of the show.
A briefing on the JSF program was delivered on the Thursday of the show, to accredited Industry participants by Tom Burbage, but there was a very small physical presence from the JSF Team. A positive aspect of this, is that Lockheed Martin’s effort could hardly be smaller for the 2013 show…
The flying displays were conducted daily, however a disappointing aspect of the airshow, was that the USAF F-22A display pilot was recalled to the USA during the week resulting in the F-22A Raptors providing a static only display at the airshow.
The only new flying display at the airshow (to me) were the RAAF Super Hornet aircraft demonstrating a well practised routine, but one based largely on the show provided by Boeing utilising USN Super Hornet aircraft in earlier years and the Singaporean F-16 display, that had a slight smacking of a last minute effort, designed to fill in the absence of the Raptor, with no disrespect intended to the Singaporeans who put on a good show, but one virtually identical to the usual USAF F-16 show also seen that day…
The remaining flying displays included the outstanding handling and short takeoff/steep descent landings of the C-27J aircraft, the recent (but not new) RAAF F/A-18A “four ship” flight display and the usual Roulette (RAAF display team) display as well as a mixture of Hawk Mk 127, RAAF Hornet single ship, warbird and acrobatic displays.
Overall it was a very interesting show, but one ultimately marred by some late minute cancellations or withdrawals from the show (Tiger ARH, Heron RPV, B-2 and F-22A flight displays). Some interesting defence news came out of the show and some confirmation of various RAAF weapon configurations (for instance, confirmation of Harpoon anti-ship missile integration on their new Super Hornet aircraft, a matter of some earlier debate).
Still, it was interesting enough to attract me back in 2013, which promises many excellent, new displays including, hopefully an F-35 production airframe…
My photos (please excuse the lack of skill…) from this year and 2007 are available here:
http://s1226.photobucket.com/albums/ee420/aussiedigger/
The official website can be perused here:
http://www.airshow.net.au/avalon2011/airshow/index.html
Regards,
AD
ADMK2The static displays consisted of the full range of ADF operational and training types, with the notable exception of Army’s Tiger armed reconnaisance helicopter, which had reportedly been present earlier in the week, but had apparently left prior to the public exhibition days.
The Avalon Airshow 2011, marked the first appearance at this show of RAAF’s new F/A-18F Super Hornet fighters and Beechcraft King Air 350 light transport aircraft, as well as a large display of ADF types including legacy F/A-18A/B Hornet aircraft, Hawk Mk 127, C-17A Globemaster III, C-130H/J-30 Hercules, E-7 Wedgetail, AP-3C Orion (flying only) PC-9A, CT-4A, S-70A9 Blackhawk, MRH-90, S-70B2 Seahawk, UH-1B Iroquois, AS350A Squirrel, Westland SeaKing and Kiowa helicopters.
A strong ground based component was also present at the show, with significant ADF platforms deployed, including M1A1 main battle tanks, ASLAV-25 and Bushmaster Light armoured vehicles. TPS-77 radar systems, ADF small arms , engineering plant and deployable medical facilities rounded out the ground displays.
Foreign military exhibitors were present in large numbers and brought an excellent array of platforms, with the USAF making a major contribution including the deployment of 2 examples of the F-22A Raptor to the Avalon Airshow for the very first time. The USAF also deployed the traditional F-16C and F/A-18E/F Super Hornet fleets, as well as C-17A Globemaster III, C-130J-30, KC-135, 2x B-1B Lancer aircraft, a B-52 bomber aircraft, the Hawker Beechcraft T-6C Texan II training aircraft, one of the main contenders for AIR 5428 and the MH-60R Romeo anti-submarine warfare helicopter, currently bidding on the Royal Australian Navy’s AIR 9000 Phase 8 – Future Naval Aviation Combat System project.
The Royal Singaporean Air Force was well represented at Avalon 2011, with several RSAF F-16C aircraft deployed for static and flying displays at the show, as well as the traditional pair of RSAF Super Puma helicopters on static display.
European airforces were also well represented, with the Royal Air Force deploying an E-3D AWACS for a static display and a French Air Force C-235 and an Italian Air Force C-27J attending for static and flying displays.
The manufacturers of the C-235 (as well as C-295) and C-27J are of course currently intent upon on bidding on the ADF’s Battlefield Airlifter program under Project Air 8000 Phase 2, when this project is granted First Pass Approval, (currently planned for 2011-2012 timeframe and means that Defence is authorised to seek request for tenders for the project, for presentation to Government) which of course added a bit more importance to their attendance.
A range of civilian aircraft deployed for the airshow, including State Police and rescue helicopters and fire fighting aircraft, keen to show their wares after the (relatively) recent Victorian bushfire disaster.
Other civilian aircraft and warbirds at the show included some excellent ex-RAAF jet aircraft including a Gloster Meteor, De Havilland Vampire and the North American F-86 Sabre, a WW2 Catalina flying boat and the perennial crowd favourite the old Lockheed Martin L1049 Constellation, “the Connie” and a large range of modern business jets plying their trade…
An interesting couple of visitors for the show, were the aforementioned Heron RPV, which was present for the trade days, but departed prior to the public exhibition days and the Lockheed Martin Multi-Int Airborne intelligence Lab, based on a modified Gulfstream III airframe. An expected visitor for the show was a USAF B-2 bomber, which was due to make it’s maiden appearance at the airshow, but perhaps due to some current world events, cancelled early in the week.
Cont.
ADMK2What experience is that?
Experience with engines that explode in flight and operators being blamed by the contracting companies’ CEO for failing to “operate it properly”.
Experience with the company eventually backing down and then blaming the exploding engine on “FOD” ignoring of course that the engine is securely located behind a debris screen and particle separator/filter, both of which were discovered to be in working order AFTER the explosion…
Experience with aircraft that out of 13 delivered to date, have been delivered to 3 different build standards, with 3 different flight manuals and load procedures and none of which meet the contracted specification…
Experience with aircraft that have floors and rear ramps that can’t carry the weight of an Australian soldier in patrol heavy load bearing configuration even in the latest build standard, let alone the light operational vehicles that the company touts as such an advantage with it’s product…
Experience with aircraft that don’t meet the contracted specification for ground clearance…
Experience with aircraft that cost for more to support than a particularly company promised in their tender data…
Experience with aircraft that have required far more development than the tendering company initially portrayed…
Experience with an aircraft universally known within the Australian Army Aviation Corps as the “Super Landsprite” and is currently subject of review by the current Government…
One wonders if that experience is enough to discount the company in the next contract?
Depends which Brigadier gets the 2 week job to do the assessment, I guess…
ADMK2No worries mate, take your time. 😉
I am looking forward to your response….
You’ll get it. Unfortunately (or perhaps fortunately depending on your POV) I am off to the Avalon airshow this week, so you’ll excuse me if I don’t get around to it until next week…
In the meantime I’ll do my best to report on the airshow. Deal?
ADMK2Do any of you think that the RAF is subsituting the Paveway III for the Paveway IV on the F-35C, because if so what are they going to use if they are facing a very large group of enemies or their up against really hardend targets.
A 2000lbs JDAM or GBU-10 should do the trick…
ADMK2Funny, Aussie Digger was very vocal in this thread for a while but after the above posting from Erkokite AD suddenly went quiet… I wonder why? :rolleyes:
Never saw it. I simply haven’t been to the site for quite a while, being busy in the real world…
I will have a look and post my thoughts later.
Regards,
AD
ADMK2Your opinion is seriously flawed by the fact that USAF decided to retire its F-117 fleet after the Kosovo war.
Kosovo war – 1998-1999.
Retirement of F-117 – 2008.
Length of service of F-117 – 1983 – 2008. (25 years).
Replaced by – F-22A.
Reason for retirement? Length of service.
Next.
ADMK2Which is why hundreds of F-117s were lost in Iraq and Serbia. Oh wait, that’s not the case.
You’re suffering from a case of “don’t confuse me with the facts.” The fact of the matter is that F-117s flew thousands of missions unscathed, but this is conveniently ignored by those that inform themselves by youtube, and .ru sites. If you do some research, you’ll see that the SAM site was ~8nm from the F-117, when it engaged(hardly demonstrating that stealth is ineffective). Another thing to ponder is that F-117s had no MAWS, ECM, etc.., resulting in poor situational awareness, or self defense measures. Had that not been the case, the outcome may very well have been different.
And that F-117 was in a 4 ship flight. One F-117 was downed. The other 3 F-117’s were not harmed and continued operating right through the war.
Guess they weren’t quite so vulnerable afterall…
ADMK2After flying the MKI , the pilots will indeed find the F 18 sluggish.The only thing going for the americans now is their politics as usual.
Of course the Super Hornet is going to feel sluggish compared to the others. It’s a carrier capable aircraft carrying over 3000lbs of external stores (2x Mk 83’s, 2x BVR missiles 2x winders), whereas the others have a pair of winders at best…
Beef up the other aircraft so they can take off and land from a carrier, load them up with 3000lbs + of external stores and let’s see their airshow routines…
However it is a good thing that an aircraft is not bought because of pure performance alone, though I imagine an extra 8000lbs of thrust and reduced drag (in likely future operational configuration compared to the present) will improve things a fair bit…
There is a point of the Super Hornet carrying those stores during it’s routines at airshows. Regrettably that point is lost on many.
Cheers,
AD
ADMK2F-35 has so far not demonstrated anything. Figures like that are slightly more than hot air.
That’s what the USN thinks and GAO agrees with them. That will do me for credibility.
So F-35 has completed more than 10% of it’s planned flight test program, yet according to you it hasn’t demonstrated “anything”?
I thought you’d agreed on another thread that the F-35 was capable of flying at M1.3? Isn’t that “something”?
I thought it was also agreed upon that the F-35 flight envelope had been cleared to 39,000 feet and maneuvering up to 7.5g? That’s what the public reports on the flight test program have stated…
ADMK2I need some read up on this:
As i understood it, Australia planned from the outset to sell back the SH to USN as soon as the F-35 was delivered, making it a temporary lease for all practical purposes.?
That is the generally understood plan but nowhere IIRC, has it been confirmed that ADF actually has an agreement to sell the airframes back to the USN and a lot of water (and at least 3 more changes of Government) has to pass under the bridge before their currently planned time is up…
Personally I will wait and see. As with the Phantom F-4E’s in the early 70’s, there will undoubtedly be a strong push to keep the airframes when in the 2023-2025 timeframe and all the current ADF/RAAF leaders will be long in retirement by then, so whatever they may say today (they are strongly against the idea) most probably won’t be applicable then.
Personally I think a future Government will sacrifice RAAF’s planned 4th JSF squadron to save a quick buck or 2 (and to keep some force flexibility with the twin tubs, Growler capability etc) and keep the Supers on strength until a UCAV is available to adequately replace them, but we will see…
ADMK2As Matt said, potential. Until those possible orders are signed & production until after 2020 guaranteed, prudence dictates that we must assume that F-18E will cease production when current USN orders are fulfilled. Some things are not worth gambling the defence of the realm on.
BTW, remember that if F-18E exports do materialise, we might find ourselves having to negotiate attrition purchases from the Indian or Brazilian production line, the US line having closed down years ago.
It’s a bit too uncertain for my taste.
I’d be astonished. Totally gobsmacked. I’d be at severe risk of dying of disbelief. What the hell would be the point?
We don’t need to cover any strike gap: we just keep the bloody Tornadoes flying! That’d be cheaper, by a vast sum (several billion quid, I reckon) than inducting a new type to replace them before they need to be retired, & building a new logistics chain for that new stopgap (spit!) type. The only – abso(four letter word beginning with fu & ending with ck this forum will censor)ing-lutely – reason we’re cutting Tornado numbers now is financial, & if we can’t afford to keep perfectly good airframes with many hours still on them flying, how in the name of all the gods real and/or imaginary are we going to afford to lash out a few billion extra to introduce a new type to replace said perfectly good aircraft?
And we don’t need any cover for the carriers until F-35C is ready, because it’ll be ready in time for our carriers. As already said, reconfiguring the carriers (including what wasn’t said, but was implicit in that, i.e. regaining cat & trap skills including deck handling: pilots aren’t everything) will take us up to when F-35C will be ready for service. It should be operational with the USN before the FAA is able to declare it operational. F-35C is not the bottleneck: the carriers are.
On top of which, an F/A-18E/F Block II purchase would only give you an aircraft with roughly 65% of the capability of the F-35C…
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/report/gao/d04900.pdf
(Page 11).
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