WACHENR0DEROriginally posted by GDL
$200 million plane? Last I heard it was costing the JASDF about USD$90 million-a-piece.
People tend to confuse the Yen value and the dollar value, I hear many trying to say 150 million Yen = 150 milion dollars
WACHENR0DEROriginally posted by J33Nelson
Why not buy both?Buy the Rafale to replace the A-7 and the Typhoon to replace the F-4. Greece would then operate the Rafale, Typhoon, Mirage 2000, & the F-16. A nice little force.
I was thinking the same thing, with the Rafale farther along with it’s A2G integration and having more hardpoints for the heavies..
and Typhoon being the air dominance fighter.. an expensive, but nevertheless interesting solution, also particularly good in maintaining multiple supply sources and makes everyone in the EU happy.
WACHENR0DERWith the opponent being primarily Russian and possibly American..it’ll be tough to get an aircraft to compete against the two large fighters.
Plus buying European is generally expensive.. I thought about using Gripens and their networking ability for this one but they’re handicapped by the range, something which both the Flanker and Eagle excel in and could easily dictate how they’ll enter the battle..
So the airforce’s silver bullet should be either the Typhoon or Rafale.. numbers should be made up by the J-10 and JH-7A.. J-10 assisting in air defence and the JH-7A for maritime strike..this way it is more dedicated to one role and could be bought in quantity (even with a budget of 4-5 billion for 10 years, it does get pretty prohibitive). Most of the money should go on ground based air defense.
WACHENR0DEROriginally posted by flex297
Just found interesting info for comparison..From http://www.israeli-weapons.com
The Israeli Air Force (IAF) chose to acquire the latest version of the world renowned Lockheed Martin F-16 over additional purchases of the more expensive twin engine Boeing F-15I – for which the IAF placed an order for 25 in 1997. The estimated $4.5 billion dollar F-16I deal ($45 million per aircraft) will be financed by the annual U.S. military aid package and concludes the largest Israeli military purchase in history. Each F-15 cost approximately $84 million.
Looks like Su-30MK is chaper than F-16I and less than half as expensive as F-15I.
what’s further surprising is that based on the MiG-29K deal and the Algerian MiG-29M deal, the price was consistently about $43-45 million per aircraft (i assume this also includes the extras too).
from Crobato’s post, the expected sale from the Su-30 for China and Vietnam makes the aircraft about $37 million.. but the $800 for 10 MKI’s seems a bit odd.
WACHENR0DERRe: Yak-130 series
Originally posted by flex297
I have noticed the Yak-130 series machine has reshaped nose cone apparently housing a radar antenna of some kind..Is this still the first Yak-130 prototype or is this another airframe?
Any idea which radar is being mounted there? NIIP OSA could be the one?http://perso.wanadoo.fr/cool.pix/yak-130.htm
Flex
I believe that is the production version
WACHENR0DEROriginally posted by flex297
Come on, we all know that this ain’t true.. US budget cannot be called *small*…The most impressive air force has Singapore… I mean look at the map, the whole country is just a pinpoint, but they really have a huge air power.
yes especially considering that population wise and GDP wise it’s roughly comparable to Norway and Finland, who both have rather smaller air force in comparison.
WACHENR0DERI was always fond of the Greek Air Force, purchasing basically the same type of aircraft from two different souces in order to diversify their equipment (Mirage F1 and F-4, M2k and F-16, etc). Not to mention their snazzy camouflage 😎
WACHENR0DERCongratulations to MIL.. I always felt that there was too much attention given to the Kamov aircraft and not enough on it’s rival. I hope we can get some pics of it’s first flight soon.. with the first flight of the Mi-38 not too long ago, Mil is on a roll!
WACHENR0DERRe: Status of the Iranian F14s
Originally posted by A-29
Does anyone knows about the status of the IRIAF F14s. I think out of the original 79 jets delivered, 25 jets remain on service, which is a pretty good achievment as they don´t have any assistance from US.
Also, I read, i don´t remember where, that they have transformed a SAM Hawk into an Air-to-air missile for the F14 fleet.
Is it true?
You should really check out ACIG.. the numbers of F-14 in service is actually at a much higher number than what western analysists first predicted. They’ve been able to reproduce almost every component save for certain parts of the engine (which is also vital)..and the radar.
WACHENR0DERI think you mean WS-10A my friend.
I remember there were pics of the engine itself (not inside the J-10) floating around
WACHENR0DEROriginally posted by GoldenDragon
Also, I just read that all three Asians in the NBA are 7 footers (Wang, Batere and Yao). Therefore, the average Chinese NBA player is much taller (at 7.2 feet) than the average American or European one also playing in the league. Extrapolating the NBA ethnic height average to the general population, could we say that northern Asians, in this case – Northern Chinese, are on average taller than whites? 😀
The Harlem Globetrotters recently got this Mongolian guy who also is around 7 feet, thus two Chinese and Two Mongols giants (Menkbateer is a Mongol from China i do believe) 😀
WACHENR0DEROriginally posted by google
I think we’re arguing over different things here. Garry was correct in his original statement that Koreans are in general, of a smaller stature than Russians. However, it seems that what we’re saying is that Koreans are of a larger stature than their Asian counterparts.
hmm you’re right.. anyways I guess we should stop disputing over this.
WACHENR0DEROriginally posted by GarryB
Personally I am shocked at your narrow minded PC attitude, as well as WACHENR0DERs and Googles.
I dunno what your problem is, but have you ever met a Korean and other asian ethnicities? Anthropologically speaking and also based from my experiences (because my neighborhood has plenty of them)..they are on the average taller than the other asian ethnicities.
WACHENR0DEROriginally posted by Srbin
Well the Yak-130 is a lot smaller than the T/F/A-50 I thinkWell FC-1 isn’t that modern comapred to T/F/A-50 nor is it a light weight nor is a Mig-29 a light weight.
Yak-130 is already a good plane, it has a decent range, very good payload for it’s size(3000kgs), something like 7 hardpoints and it’s speed is almost supersonic. However, the biggest problem I see with T/F/A-50 is it’s cost and weapons that would come with it. I don’t know the cost of it but I have a feeling it will be pretty expensive and with the weapons it would come with like AIM-120 and JDAM then you need US approval for that. Perhaps South Korea can make it compatable with Russian weapons and avionics or even Chinese and make SD-10/R-77/other Chinese/Russian ASMs compatable with it
However Yak-130 would need some structural changes, maybe different wing, stronger engines, and as soon as you remove the second seat and make space for more fuel you got more range, and probably you can even stretch the fuselage a little more. Maybe add 2 more hardpoints somewhere under the fuselage and you got 2 wingtip pylons for R-73 and you got the rest of the hardpoints for other weapons.
Yak-130 would be significantly cheaper than T/F/A-50 probably and would not come with all those political demands, even if it is currently better.
Anyways if they could just put in one engine I think Yak-130 would be much better, not only probably faster but with much bigger range and better payload and easier to maintain.
You sound like you don’t know what you want.. what kind of capabilities are you looking for, because the Yak-130 is first and foremost a TRAINER with NO BVR capability.. to suggest an air force to adopt the Yak-130 to replace their MiG-21/F-5/etc is absurd.. especially when the FC-1 (which is about the same weight as the T-50), offers a BVR advantage, not to mention what the MiG-29 can do.
The Yak-130 is a good plane, yes.. and a trainer able to fill a market that lacks advance aircraft with high AOA.. but it does not mean it’ll make a good light multi role aircraft that can compete with other light combat aircraft with out extensive modifications of the structure that you want..which would involve costs and time.
Furthermore aircraft such as the Hawk 200 which is a combat aircraft derived from an advance trainer, hasn’t been selling very well..with the two sole users preferring to adopt REAL combat aircraft. While the AMX, also a smaller subsonic aircraft designed for combat, isn’t selling that well either, with the cost per unit being greater than the MiG-29 and as much as an F-16 from Italian reports.
further more I suggest you come down from the “what-ifs” mode, because one can certainly see the potential if you changed a little of this, add a little of that.. but in reality it is much different.
now some questions for you if you don’t mind..
how much do you think the Yak-130 will cost, and how much do you think it will cost after extensive modification to make it into the aircraft you want.
how much do you think the FC-1 and the F-50 will cost
and what kind of capabilities do you want.
WACHENR0DEROriginally posted by GarryB
AOA will be comparable to Russia’s advanced fighters. It will have dial up manouverability to perform like the aircraft it is training the pilot for.Regarding speed, is the SHAR crap… because it is subsonic too.
As a defender subsonic is important but not crucial. The reduced costs of not being supersonic means that you can have three aircraft for every supersonic fighter you could have bought.
The SHAR is a poor example for comparison because it was not primarily designed as a training aircraft, furthermore the poster suggested an aircraft to replace the MiG-21, F-5, etc something that you will not see airforces wanting any Harrier as a replacement. Like I said earlier.. if a country wanted a cheap aircraft to replace the aircraft he mentioned, and want to avoid American components, then the FC-1 and MiG-29 will be a better choice.
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