Flying HighIs it a Spitfire blade?
At first glance does not look like the right shape to me, but photos can be deceptive. As the blade drawing number seems to be missing on the blade itself, the only real way to identify it is by the 3 sets of stamped ident numbers underneath the adaptor on the root base( block no, drawing no, serial no), if it’s a Rotol blade.
If the blade height and max blade width were known, more info could be gleaned, alongside the likely blade manufacturing process, which can often be identified with broken blades, where the sheath is missing.
At first glance the wood pattern does not seem to fit the ‘Jablo’ or ‘hydulignum’ pattern that Spitfire Rotol blades were made of.
As the coloured identity disc is missing, it is more difficult to identify, they were originally either pink, yellow, or sometimes green. Pink is correct for Spitfires. The wood grain may possibly be spruce or douglas fir (yellow), but that is only a guess. The blade rotation is correct for a Merlin engine but that is all one can say. So with the blade set numbers missing inside the identity disc circle, we don’t know at present whether it is off a three of 4 blade airscrew, or exactly what engine type.
If anyone wants to find out if this blade still has it’s blade drg no indented underneath, I just might be able to identify it from my records.
Hope this helps, always willing to find out more. FH.
Flying HighPiece of Cake DVD- where to buy it in the uk.
Just a quick note,bought my DVD from – http://www.films2door.co.uk
for only £13.99 including postage. It did not take long to arrive either. Can recommend their Imperial War Museum’s WW2 ‘Spitfire frontline fighter’ and ‘Ferry Pilot’ too. FH.
Flying HighPiece of Cake DVD success & Broken Rotol blade scene?
Just recently watched it for the first time.Loved the Friston airfield connection and generally the attention to detail throughout. Highly recommend the series to all….
But can someone please tell me what that early scene about the broken wooden Rotol blades was all about ? Followed by the comment saying something about getting back to using metal blades. I think History records it the other way round. The history of Rotol blades has been an interest of mine and have as yet not heard of any blades breaking in flight as shown in the film, without it having been the result of a flying accident etc. On forced landings the wooden blades breaking first, often saved the precious engines.
If anyone knows the reasoning behind this scene I would love to hear from them. Always willing to learn more. Thanks FH.
Flying Highwhat have the Romans done for us?
Thanks for that JDK, Point taken. Please see modified titles on both pics. FH.
Flying HighSPITFIRE F MK X111.MB882. Photo & enquiry.
Many thanks everybody, your knowledge always astounds me. It makes these images so much more interesting to look at, when one knows the details. Will post a CB photo of Spitfire MK X1V RB140 and what I have managed to find out about that so far. Might tie it in with a question about old photo restoration and how far should we go.
Thanks again, FH.
Flying HighAlex Henshaw tribute programme.
Have just seen it twice over to savour what was a short but, in my opinion, brilliant programme, where so many qualities shone through that ‘maketh the man’. Could we have a longer version on DVD please?
Does anybody know if a copy of Alex’s legendry Spitfire display is available to see these days, outside the IWM’s film archive?
Well done Alex.
Flying HighMy late Father’s aviation memories.
Many thanks to you all for your contributions to this thread. For me this is what makes aviation history so interesting. What a time it was then to have been around to have the courage and desire to experience flight for it’s own sake, before aeriel warfare’s contribution.
The last flight my father took was as a guest (in 1971 I think), to fly in Concorde, before the commercial flights had begun. Apparently inside it was full of scientific test instruments, and the flight lasted for about 30 minutes over Wiltshire and the south west with about twenty people on board. I thought that Concorde must have taken off from kemble, but recently have been told it’s runway would not have been long enough. So can only guess it must have been Hullavington.
Anyway, in adult life my father lived in Malmesbury Wiltshire where it is recorded that a monk called Elmer made himself some wings an jumped off the tower spire of the town’s Abbey in the year 1010, and it is said glided for about 400 ft before breaking both legs in the fall. Later he wanted to try a second time, but the abbot refused. So it took another 800 years before the likes of Sir George Cayley to take to the air and fly again !
Flying HighSpitfire PRX111 documented record
Dusting down the old books, have managed to come up with the following details –
PRX111 was an improvement on the PR1G type, with the same camera fittings, but was powered by the special low rated altitude Merlin 32 engine, and fitted with 4 .303 browning guns. Price says 26 Spits were converted. Here, by the way he has calculated the figures, it seems to be 18 conversions from the Mk11 and MkV and 8 from the PR type G.
The planes saw service with Squadrons 4, 400,541 and 542. They were used for low level reconaissance in an effort to record the French beaches during preparations for the Normandy invasion. Full throttle with the Merlin 32 was achieved at 5400ft.
The PR type G (with its very pale shade of pink covering) was expected to photograph it’s targets from immediately under cloud cover base wherever that happened to be, but there are reports of problems for once out of low cloud cover the pink colour became so visible over land and sea that the planes stuck out like a sore thumb.
Flying HighThe Pink Spitfire – P7505?
Hi Voytech, could you pass this onto Wojtek for me please –
ref – the recorded history of P7505 as outlined above.
In relation to Mark’s picture of the Pink Spitfire as seen in your book, how did he arrive at the possibility that this was a picture of P7505, and it’s PRV11 connection ? This is all fascinating and new material for me. This along with the notification of a second accident for P7505 on August 30th August, a category B damage this time, this fits well with my information that on September 2nd, a couple of days later P7505 was sent off to be converted to a Mk VB. But, for me, the official records state clearly P7505 was converted from a MkV to a PRX111, and as stated above I am led to understand in textbooks that the PRX111 type was selected for low level work. Was it not the case that Pink PR Spitfires were designed for high level operations? This is my dilemma, it’s just a matter of fitting the pieces of information together, so if you could please let me know what historical sources you have used that I could refer to, to clarify the above, and make things clearer for me I would be very grateful for your input.
Flying HighA.S.T. and ‘air service training’
Hi Philip,
thanks for the input. I see what you mean, but these are not my documented words, and can only take them at face value. However as stated above am gathering in squadron details, and so far, for example, 91 and 54 squadrons appear to have been doing just that, quote – ‘being used for air service training’ prior to getting ready for going into action, as outlined in the timeline above. Anyway will bear all this in mind, and things will begin to make more sense when more info comes in as to what each squadron was involved with on a daily basis, in relation to the known about P7505.
For me,there will always be more to learn, appreciate and understand.
Flying HighPink Spitfire P7505 ?
There Tiz done.
Thanks for the picture Mark. Very interesting, but would it be possible to get in touch with Wojtek and see how he arrived at this possibility? Is he a member of this forum? Will have to get hold of his book.
My latest info states that the 18 Spitfire PRX111 conversions were designed for low level duties, often used over the sea.
As always any help is really appreciated.
Flying HighThe recorded history of P7505
Thanks for all you comments. I thought it would be helpful if this documented museum history of P7505 is disclosed. I am currently adding to the details below with the squadron records dates and locations. But have not yet had any reason to disbelieve what is documented below. The one recorded accident, with cat 2 damage, occured on October 21st 1940 with 66 Squadron.
Voytech, I have not yet found any records of an accident involving P7505 on the 30th August 1941, this is very interesting, please could you give me more details together with your sources. Any help to build a bigger picture of this plane’s history would be much appreciated, and if anyone knows of any squadron photos, or other recorded details, that might include P7505, please post them here or contact me.
Many thanks to you all.
…………………………………………………………………………………………
P7505 A Supermarine Spitfire Mk 11A was manufactured in the Castle Bromwich factory in the Midlands and left the Maintenance Unit on the 10th October 1940, just at that critical time during the final stage of the battle of Britain P7505 was delivered to 66 Squadron. On the 21st October 1940 it received Category 2 damage due to enemy action. After repairs were made it was given to 91 Squadron for Air Service Training. On the 14th February 1941 118 Squadron took the plane over with the serial number NK – T .
On the 6th May 1941 403 Squadron took possession of the plane. On the 31st July 1941
54 Squadron took the plane over. On the 4th of August 1941 P7505 was again used for Air Service Training, until the 2nd of September 1941 when the plane was converted to a Mk VB and fitted with a Merlin 45 engine. It was then delivered back to 54 Squadron until 5th January 1942?
133 Squadron had the plane up to the 10th March 1942. Then 601 Squadron took it over until the 10th of April 1942. Afterwards 164 Squadron used P7505 until the 20th May 1942.
602 Squadron had the Spitfire until the 10th September 1942.
Then it was taken to Philip Powis at South Marston for a fuel system modification. Afterwards the plane was then transferred to Heston Aircraft ltd for a major conversion into a PRX111 Photo Reconnaissance Spitfire, and fitted with the Merlin 32 engine.
Approximately eleven months later P7505 was then delivered to 4 Squadron on the 30th December 1943 where apparently it remained until being struck off charge on the 28th March 1945.
………………………………………………………………………………………..
Flying HighBut why would anybody want to consider such a conversion?
Hi mark, thanks for your comment. These reason for these questions is that I am currently doing squadron research into the history of one particular Spitfire P7505 that started life as a Mk11A then was updated to a MkV and ended the war as a PRX111. Apparently only 18 were converted to PR111’s like this. ref Spitfire The History by B Morgan and E Shacklady.
Interesting to hear about Castle Bromwich. Can you recommend any further reading about CRO facilities?
Flying HighThe manual Radiator flap.
Thanks for correcting my mistake Bruce. It’s been a long day. I should have double checked. The beauty of this is I never stop learning! I’m still thinking of the tale heard today about the Coffman starter, new to Spitfires at the time, and apparently the only one fitted in the squadron. Imagine you have a two minute warning of an impending attack on the airfield. With all pilots scrambling to the nearest plane, to get them in the air as quick as possible. You jump into your cockpit and ram the cartridge in to start up, and nothing happens! Suddenly all hell breaks loose, all the other planes are up, and you are a sitting duck on the field! Then the pilot notices his plane is slowly being pushed, the pace increases as a gallant groundcrew seize the moment, while the bullets are flying and somehow manage to cross the strip and get the Spitfire back between the blast walls. Now thats comradeship and courage all wrapped into one.
Flying HighWould it have been achieved in Squadron workshops?
Thankyou all for your replies. Have just returned from a Victory books signing event at Worcester, and this gave me the opportunity to ask the Spitfire pilot veterans themselves about this. Appreciating that it was a long time ago, the consensus was that the conversion from a Mk11A to VB would have required a return to the factory, perhaps at Castle Bromwich. Then the conversion could have taken up to a month to complete the task. Besides what has already been mentioned above, there were a number of smaller differences , one example being – the manual radiator control flap lever had to be removed and fitted with the later automatic system. For me today was a great experience talking to these amazing men this afternoon, and to be recommended if you get the chance, but don’t leave it too long, for as one Spitfire pilot aged 89 said today time is really flying by!
Sign In
