until now if have not seen the superb russian navy. if kirovs are no aaw ships, where are they?

Kirovs are AAW ships but are also missile batteries due to their SS-N-19. They are in fact multiroll ships NOT only AAW. USN has 14 Nuclear supercarriers, and is much better to escord a CVN with nuclear vessel rather with conversional.
TLAM-N has 200kt nuce and the mighty Granit 500kt 2.5times greater than your tomahawk. Also Granit has artificial intelligence and a unique command system which permits two flying granits to reprogram their targets in order to avoid 2 missile to hit the same ship. Further more their “brain” considers which target is more “valuable” and they start the destuction from the most Valuable ships of the CBG.
Both tomahawk and granit with nukes are out of service. Tomahawk and Granit are very different missiles. Granit is like a small airplane 10m long, you have to accept that granit is much more powerfull missile than tomahawk. 750 kg warhead istead of 420 kg tomahawk. 7 tons weight instead of 1.5 tons of tomahawk. Granit even without warhead can snap a Arleigh Burge in two pieces due to its size and its kinetic energy?

Do you have any information about the Granit 2??

maybe you can show us these superb russian ships.
how many warships with more than 1000t did russia build in the last 10 years (and which are in service today)? let me think: none? e.g.: do you really think, that 20 year old air defence ships are better than new burkes or de zeven’s or …?
if russia has all that money and the economic power why are they not able to repair and modernise their ships (not to talk about building new ones). i have seen some nice drawings from new ships but you can not rule the see with drawings.

no more political replies from me. i made my point clear, that’s all. let us talk about the superb russian navy. 😀

The Kirovs are not primarly AAW ships are “Missile carriers” and are nuclear powered which means 40 -50 years for life, with modernizations. The american carriers are also built for having a life of half century. Also are nuclear powered as CVNS which means unlimited range. These mangificant ships have no western counterpart. The only attempt was the creation of the US “Arsenal Warship” and the French semisub -if I spell it well-“Frappeur”. Kirovs are floating missile batteries. Granit is a State of Art, a fantastic cruise missile. This 7 ton missile can easily sing an entire CBG is is nuclear tipped. Granit had a half megaton warhead and in the previous pages at the photos Granit was like a unmaned “MIG – 21” because of the “nose” Yakhont is the small “brother of Granit” but even Yakhont is larger than tomahawk having 2 times greater weight 3 tons instead of 1.5t. The only negative points of granit are 1. the very small range only 500km and 2. that is not a land attack weapon. Imagine a land attack version of Granit!!! Even with the conversional warhead (750 kg) could flatten a small city!!! Not to mention the 500kt warhead! The Hirosima 20kt bomb in frond of 500kt Granit’s warhead looks like a toy. Due to granits in my point of view Kirovs are missile carriers not just AAW ships.

About the drawings that you mentioned before can you post some of them?

If i were leader of USN I wouldn’t create Burges nor Ticos! There was a project at the begging of 90’s. The Aegis version of Virginia class nuclear cruisers, but they were cancelled in favor of conversional Burges. The Aegis version of Virginia is the most suitable vessel for USN.

Oh look, a FSW, a canard, and a small tail area. Just like the Su-47 😉

This was a NASA project in mid 80’s for non military purpose, NOT a USAF project. Su-47 is a comlete Jet fighter and the number 01 means that this is a prototype. PAK – FA May be the continue of this project.

either you are kidding or you are mad. maybe you should learn something about the history first.

dictatorship and socialism can be that easy …
… but it doesn’t work well.
yes 30 years ago russia had a big navy but what happened? welcome to the real world. i can only repeat myself: study the history

there is a lot more to say to your post but imho it’s a waste of time so only another sentence to the topic:

maybe russia should first modernise and repair their ships before building new destroyers/cruisers. if they build up new ships which are crap in ten years because of lacks of funds for repair and modernisation programs, it is a waste of money to build the ships. compare the naval budgets first and then compare equal navies. as long as russia has not enough money for building up a new blue sea navy it will stay a coastal one. nearly everey nation want to have a strong navy but either the countries have not enough money for that or they have other things where they think the money is needed more. so until now only the usa has both.

and war on terrorism eat’s up money like nothing else at the moment. even the usa has to save money by cutting procurement plans, so if russia wants to build up a big new navy in a short time they have to stop the war.
if the usa continues on their war on terrorism like they do today, there will be significant holes in the us-navy in a few years.

RUSSIA is not a land locked state, furthemore has the greatest coastline so navy is a vital element for russia. Russia has the greatest energy resources in Siberia, and if Putin decides to close the pipe lines during the winter THE HOLE EUROPE WILL BE COMPLETELY FROSEN. How mush cosmordoroms have USA?? Only one in Canaveral! Russia has 4 of them Baikonur, Semipalatinsk, Plecesk, and Kapustin yard, so is a poor country?? Also USA is about 48 % smaller than Russia, Even Siberia is larger than the american land.

Be patient. There were many projects which never went even to drawing board. Some of them which did were built as models, some were not. Most of these projects now are being revealed by design bureaus as their classified status is being removed. 😀 There is a just lately published book on 60th anniversary of Severnoje PKB design bureau, unfortunately, they are not talking much about never-been projects, there are books by Kuzin and Nikolsky and some others. To make such a list will take a lot of digging 😮

Do you have any photos from surface vessels or only from landing ships? The French web page that I have already mentioned shows a model of 11780

So again why USA needs 12 supercarriers of 100000t tikos and burges with thousands of tomahawks on board, and the new DDX?????? which is a “modern USS DES MOINES” heavy cruiser not a destroyer . Please answer me!

Why does Russia need a blue water navy?

You want USA to have 12 aircraft carriers hundreds of ticoderogas and arleigh burges with tomahawks and Russia only gunboats and fishing boats? According to your mad thinking Russia needs only a fleet of Kanoe Kayaks for vrafting and guarding in Volga river!!!!!!!!!!!
Put at your mind that Russia is a SUPERPOWER.Today Russia is the continue of Tsarist Russia and Soviet Union.

This is an old photo because today the number of “Admiral Chapanenco” is (650) not (437).

If You put gas turbines in 051C, it’s a good interim solution until the Russian APAR is ready.

No way, the 051B, C are modern ludas, and that means modern “Kotlins” !!!. So this choice is out of question.

How much I wich to read Masorin’s mind!! But I believe that he wants a complete solution. All the eggs in a basket. He don’t wants to make experiments, to develop one or two classes of vessels, and to have a lot of types in surface fleet.He don’t want to develop a failure class, and then to start again. Look at the chinese navy. They have only 15 modern DDGs with a lot of types!! O52, 052(B&C as subclasses), 051(B&C), sovremmenies(2+2)
and 054 FFGs if we considered the as major vessels.Im putting out the Ludas and the other WII stule frigates.

The Anchar looks like (from this ancle of vew) as a modified Kara.

I think that the new Russian DDG will have 4 dimentional battle capability, of fighting land, air, ASW, and surface, with heavy cruiser armament. All of you in this forum are fans of corvettes, and of light navy, but as I said before it is much more economical to develop 1 or 2 classes of multirole and more capable vessels than, a lot light boats of different role. I beleive at TsNII-1 rebirth!!

Does anyone have recent photos of Admiral Nakhimov??