Total sensationalist journalist BS. Give me an S-300P or even S-200 battery and I’ll drop FOXBATs like flies. FLIES.

Iranian Tomcat pilots certainly weren’t scared of nor had any problems swatting them down either. If you want to determine just how effective the MiG-25P was, we should really look at it’s kill/loss ratio. An unsurpassed aircraft of such awesome performance and excellent capability must surely have a dominant kill/loss ratio, right?

Guys, its all about context.

In IAF service, nothing that PAF/ PLAAF had at the time could reliably intercept the Foxbat.

In that, the article is correct and that is what the AVM said.

Today, its a different story, especially with the PLAAF buying the S-300 shop from Russia, and the Foxbat having little ECM and relying only on speed and altitude.

Good riddance to Buraidiah and now we can return to topic.

Here are some details on Rohini/ Revathi series based on some extensive googling + source research, IEEE, Radar symposium etc

-LRDE and PIT worked together on a family of mobile S Band radars, which PIT marketed as the TRS-15 and now 19

The first LRDE version was developed as the 3D CAR and displayed in 2001. (This is why Prasun seized upon the date). Of course, the fellow didnt even grasp the fact that a developed system displayed in 2001 meant work on the system would have been ongoing from several years before and that PIT would admit its cooperation with LRDE to jointly develop the radar (PIT, IEEE, 2002)

LRDE and PIT cooperation was basically to develop the antenna system and overall architecture.

After that both countries seem to have gone their way. Eg Signal processing on both radars is different and so are design aims.

For instance latest 3D CAR on DRDO site is advertised as TWS 150 targets, while the latest PIT TRS radar can only TWS 120. But TRS-19 has some 10-20 km more range and more height coverage. Other hardware is also different, eg
http://www.drdo.org/pub/nl/aug05/personnel.htm

Shri GSN Raju obtained his BE from Jawaharlal Nehru Technological University in 1976 and ME from IIT, Kanpur in 1993. He joined LRDE in 1977 and has been working in the areas of Radar systems and high power radar transmitters. He has been responsible for developing high power transmitter technology at LRDE and has successfully realised transmitters for Indra-I, Indra-II, Airborne Surveillance Platform and 3D-Central Acquisition Radar (3D-CAR). He has made significant contributions in system integration of 3D-CAR and proving performance of this radar in the intended environment.

In essence, this means 3D CAR detailed design performance is known only to LRDE and its frequencies, operating b/w are specific to LRDE alone.

LRDE research paper talks of design techniques for the ability to optimize the radars depending on surveillance aim, elevation coverage vs height.

Example: Variant 1 would offer 20 deg elevation vs Variant 2 which would offer 30 deg coverage (at expense of height).

A DRDO PDF on radar technology mentions some key areas of LRDE work on 3D CAR:

PSP – Programmable Signal Processor
Transmitter
Receiver/Exciter

Astra website mentioned also supports the above:

http://www.astramwp.com/products/carss.html

3-D, Central Acquisition Rader
# LNA BLOCK
# CDS BLOCK
# RECEIVER BLOCK
# S-BAND EXCITER SYSTEM

Coming to further development:

LRDE variants:

– Revati (Naval radar) has a new antenna developed by LRDE, as well as new hardware for forming beams, as well as new software developed by LRDE for naval operations. The challenge is to detect targets against sea clutter (“multi path reflection”). Stabilisation for the radar was designed by DRDO and L&T, India.

http://www.naval-technology.com/contractors/warship/larsen-toubro/larsen-toubro3.html

This has a new antenna design also per the pic. More complicated stuff on antenna design, using phase shifters and what not. Described as “ultra low sidelobe antenna” specifically for naval applications.

A prototype of the radar is currently on INS Dunagiri. It probably has a different range & elevation performance to the Rohini also,

Video here
http://media.bharat-rakshak.com/Misc/INS+Dunagiri.MPG.html

From DRDO website:

Three-D Surveillance Radar System, Revathi: It is medium range 3D surveillance radar to be fitted in ASW Corvette class of ships to detect air and sea surface targets. The radar is based on proven 3 Dimensional-Central Acquisition Radar (3D-CAR) technologies. Basic objective is to realise a production ready 3dimensional radar meeting Naval requirements. The system is realized through tri-partite agreement involving Bharat Electronics Limited as the production agency, Larsen & Toubro for antenna stabilisation and other mechanical subsystems and DRDO as designer and system integrator.

So this is a new Multi Functional radar, with a new antenna, stabilisation, beamformers, plus s/w.

– Rohini, is the IAF version of the basic 3D CAR to IAF specifications and after user feedback.

Per news reports, 3D CAR was first used by IAF in the 2002 stand-off with Pakistan and work on Rohini began after that.

Again, new hardware including COTS signal processing was developed for the Rohini. The partner for antenna stabilisation was again L&T.

Manufacturer (overall integration) per BEL Annual report is Bharat Electronics. Among other stuff I could gather is more ECCM specific improvement, including s/w and hardware (receiver and exciter).

Formal agreement was signed in 2005:
http://sify.com/finance/fullstory.php?id=13933061

The blogspot report in previous mentions some more companies and firms involved as well, but this is what I had time to find.

Given all this stuff, it is clear that the LRDE work stands on its own merit, basically the above list for 3D CAR and further derivatives includes the entire H/W plus S/W moreorless.

Even the antenna and stabilisation seems to have been reworked.

Based upon reports, it also seems that Indian derivatives of the 3D CAR will continue to appear since it seems tailored to Indian requirements in specific (Low – Medium alt coverage).

This is also supported by IAF Chief FH Majors statement on IAF working with designers for more variants.

PIT Variants:

PIT had originally advertised the TRS-15 and its been moved upto the TRS-19 designation but as mentioned, it has significant differences from the 3D CAR, as well as the Rohini. The PIT variants apparently have different transmitters (TWT), different exciter/ receivers as well as signal processing.

PIT priority:

PIT has concentrated on the TRD-1211 radar and a different design, the TRC-20. Both have been ordered by the Polish services, the AF and Army respectively.

7 TRD1211 Radar types are in service with the Polish AF. These are large radars for theater defence with ranges of 300 km and beyond.

The TRC-20 is actually 4 PESAs in one, hoisted up similar to the 3DCAR and scans in both elevation and horizontally, electronically. Instrumented range is similar to 3D CAR.

The TRD-1211, is I quote:

A family of transportable and fixed (FADR) long range L-band radars is represented by three-dimensional
transportable radar TRD-1211, which is designated as a source of information for national command and control systems and ASOC 173.

Latest version of this radar is the TRD-1235.

There are no radars of the above types (in specific design attributes) in Indian service.

In contrast, LRDEs work on longer range radars has now shifted to AESA system, so for long range radars, I am guessing it will be built around something similar to an AESA but with rotational scanning.

More on this when I read up some more.

Anyways, this is what I could dig up based on some of the posters comments for now.

As expected, yet another post full of meaningless noise and an absolute waste of bandwidth.

Not one piece of information, not one piece of useful data. Just silly flamebaits and the usual what we have come to expect from you.

Goodbye Buraidiah.

Indeed, anyone sane here can realise what the reality is, and can even look in the DRDO website , PIT websites and IEEE to see the reality.

Unfortunately for you there is reams of data about LRDEs work with ultra low sidelobe antennas for the 3D Rohini/Revathi series, and design methods. Showing how LRDE designed the Rohini/ Revathi and didnt buy out anything.

But it takes basic engineering knowledge to understand these things.

But your rants are amusing.

If Pakistanis like you are so upset about one radar, I wonder how upset you would be when you see the next bunch of radars and similar designs coming your way.

Man you sunken to the depths, that you take the pain of finding the articles and wrote those snippets.He might have his fair share of errors in reporting, as any journalist would- particularly concerning defence.But enjoy the character assassination, when he is not there to defend. You have “freedom” to do that here, no one will restrain.

Indeed in “Buraidiah world”, it is to “sunken to depths” to show how a self proclaimed journalist

– invents data
-is absolutely unreliable
– and is more often than not, caught plagiarising and making false claims **

(** see KeyPub member Pit’s posts about “Bravo Sierra – his words, not mine, about Prasun Sengupta on MKI)

http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showpost.php?p=1083076&postcount=42

LOL x 2 at your claims and your (sadly failed) attempt to fire your “India sux, bad bad” slingshot from Prasuns shoulders. :p

Unfortunately, IEEE exists. 🙁

All one has to do is put PS in google and the fun begins!

Developed closely with.

That means technology belongs to both and both worked on it.

That means its upto each party to do what they want with it.

And India already has a “Revathi” radar which PIT is yet to develop. They arent into Naval radars at all.

And I think anyone here can see that I have shown your claims to be ludicrous.

Nice names, but do they have to claim “developed” when it is nothing but Technolgy buyout and local manufactured??

As shown above, it is not “technology buyout and local manufactured”.

That was Prasuns guess work which you latched on to, and has been shown to be wrong.

Interestingly enough, this is what the commenter who posted above information also mentioned:

(Misraji for the link)

http://livefist.blogspot.com/2008/08/truth-about-rohini-radar-from-prasun-k.html

Anonymous said…

My question to Ravi: Why is not DRDO buying technology like Prasun says and using it quick

6:17 AM

Dear Freind,

First technology cannot be purchased and used just like that. This is common misconception which is read only in newsmagazines and defence magazines

It has to be developed with involvement and with user acceptance. Otherwise, you get only LRU which is of limited use and is not of good value for long term project

In DRDO, the plan is to only go for those item which is either too long to develop in India, or too expensive to develop from basic, or which can be leveraged into more development items.

What this means is that extensive involvement is done. You cannot just buy technology and use it because you dont understand it.

So the option is to codevelop and use joint research on some specific item and make rest in India, and then develop the rest more and replace with indian IP as requirements need the same.

User also has say at every level if it is user specific project and not a technology development project.

So this is why “Prasun BS” approach doesnt work. DRDO cannot just buy out technology and call its own. It is useless. You cannot even integrate such technology with own equipment because your own equipment will not at all work with bought out technology designed for other system

Anyone with an iota of common sense would be able to realise now that if India can churn out 3D CAR variants on its own (including a naval radar which PIT doesnt have at all).

That if it can manufacture upto 20 radars per year, it has mastered the design and production both.

Enjoy the good times.

BTW, the IEEE article above confirms this as well:

PIT has not developed the TRS-19 further, but have concentrated on other derivatives for long range theater coverage.

PIT also ran a tender for its own separate maritime surveillance project, and purchased LRDE’s antennas (slotted array) for the same.

Both are mentioned so the above is definitely accurate.

The long range radar per the article is the TRD 1211. It looks remarkably similar to the YLC-2 and the Israeli MPR (anyone with Janes 2002-03 edition?) at the time. Very similar (in looks) to the AN/TPS-77 as well. The standard large rectangular antenna and crab like supports.

Seems designers the World across choose similar solutions.

The LRDE developed radar antenna is used for

“new X-band surveillance radar called ARS-400”

No time at present to dig up/check the rest but its pretty accurate so far.

This is the one which has more details:

“It was a historic day for India’s radar technology as Rohini is not only a symbol of technological marvel but it is also a symbol of joint effort by DRDO, BEL and IAF,” Sastry said.

The BEL chief said around 100 pieces of the radar would be built, with around 20 radars being manufactured every year.

Sastry assured the forces that the BEL has surplus capacity to undertake serialised production and its manufacturing facilities were being currently utilised only to an extent of 70 per cent.

Major said Rohini will be the mainstay of the IAF’s air defence systems along with other sensors.

For the first time, the IAF has also awarded an ‘Annual Maintenance Contract’ for the Rohini radars to the BEL under which defence PSU will provide maintenance of the system.

Addressing the function, Scientific Advisor to the Defence Minister and DRDO chief M Natarajan said Rohini radar is a shining example of the defence-industry synergies.

He said the defence sector needs a network of companies which could specialise on extended product range.

Private sector pioneers Larsen and Toubro (L&T) and Astra Microwave have collaborated with the BEL and DRDO to provide ancillary inputs to development of the Rohini radar, which is almost indigenously developed barring minor critical components, he said.

DRDO’s Electronics and Radar Development Establishment Director S Varadarajan said changes would be incorporated into the radar time to time based on end user feedback.

He said Rohini is an indigenous radar as the import component in the radar was kept to bare minimum.

“The radar will go a long way for the air defence system. We are happy to know that IAF is going to increase its order,” he said.

http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/2008/08/07/stories/2008080751531000.htm

If the 100 radar order is confirmed, little needs to be said.

You realised that now? 🙂

Shiv Aroor (HToday), Rajat Pandit (ToI), Vishal Thapar (CNN-IBN), Rahul Bedi (Janes), Pravin Sawheny (Force Mag), Prasun Sengupta (Force)
…

All these “gentlemen”, lets just say they keep “interesting company”.

Most of their so called sources are wheeler dealers, and rtd agents for OEMs in Delhi..

And the general public expected them to be unbiased and honest.

Goodness me!

And every OEM from every other country’s Indian rep is playing the game of planted articles in lieu of favors exchanged.

A year or so back Aroor ran a hatchet job on DRDO on the orders of his editor. Guess which agency was being a stumbling block in the MRCA deal making sure some OEMs were forced to comply with 90% TOT and offset requirements?

And guess who the editor was and who has been supporting the n-deal the most.

The media in India is, lets just say, an “interesting and profitable profession”.