More Power to you Austin!!! 😀 🙂

Thank you !

Why not lock this thread as well? If some new news comes up, it can be discussed on the IAF thread, otherwise if its sufficiently newsworthy, a thread can be started at that point in time.

I know, KJLost better be careful there- you have some unwanted attention directed your way!! 😀 😀 😀

Super Hornet has a lot hinging on

Spares guarantees
N deals
TOT

Only if all three are met will it be selected

Avionics wise, its the best of the entire lot, & a force of SH, MKI, LCA, M2K, MiG 29s, Jags, remaining MiGs, logistically diverse as they may be, will still make IAF practically unassailable in terms of technology and force in the region
That plus Phalcons / local AEW

Another mystery to me: The F18E/F which the indians will likely buy, is as heavy as the F15 and has 80% t0 90% of the take-off weight of the Su30Mk(bear in mind that the max internal fuel of the SU is like an average fighter with max internal fuel plus external tanks). Will it only be used as as a carrier borne plane ? And can it take off with good load off a 32000 ton carrier ski-board fashion? Sometimes the indian requirements are very baffling I must say.

If the indians are going to buy more mirage2k, then the mirage2k isn’t that much bigger than the LCA.
My dear Deino, I wasn’t compraring the indian planes to chinese planes at all;
I’m just a bit amazed by the continuum of planes the indians have and the claims that go with them.

The F18 is in because of 2 things:

AESA
Politics (N- deal)

Otherwise, it would not be regarded as competitive, in fact because of Uncle Sams tendency to slap sanctions, it would be a hot potato which IAF would be 2 happy to drop!!!

Mirage 2K has a higher payload than LCA and has an excellent reputation for
Reliability
Wartime performance (Kargil)

Anyways, its out of the bidding , unless Thales or Dassault do something radical (AESA)

I’m just a bit amazed by the continuum of planes the indians have and the claims that go with them.

Indians feel much the same about the Chinese.

“….Since the LCA is such a great aircraft ready to be produced and deployed ‘soon’, why do the indians still want to import up to 200s ‘MRCA’??

Please read more carefully.
The MRCA are to be heavier and longer ranged than the LCA.

the swedish gripen also among the competing imports and it is about the size of the LCA?

Yes, but its chances are nil- to small at best, its only being used as a negotiating point.
Frankly, the Gripen is a beautiful plane, but its too light , limited in payload + range for India’s needs.
The NORA AESA is very interesting but previous discussions have established that even this uses technology from Raytheon, so TOT will be limited

ven said the LCA is a single engined rafale. But we also heard that the indians also seek outside help to upgrade their mig21s. Sounds a bit puzzling or the indians must have money to burn. :diablo:

The Indians seek outside help for those areas where they need to
They are upgrading MiG27s entirely in-house

It is entirely on a cost to benefit ratio and local capability basis, what can be done cheaply in India is, what cant be since original OEM offers better and cheaper option is done there

Also India prefers to install the best avionics in its aircraft

This means that several OEMs are involved, including local ones. Other nations cannot afford to follow the same process coz of cost and politics

Deino,

There are no external modifications or band-aids for the inlets planned for the LCA
Its basic design has been checked extensively in massive CFM simulations on supercomputers (PARAM series) and wind tunnel testing
What is being done is FBW testing to explore every corner of the flight envelope and expand the FBW FCS to meet it
Plus simultaneously, it will need to be weaponized with radar being integrated with predeveloped Stores Management system through Open Architecture Mission Computer

——-
This is for first batch of 33 aircraft .

Second batch of 20, now aim is to get the local Engine working, plus local radar fully developed.

IAF has given HAL and GTRE three- four years for this- to deliver local engine and radar, since it is by then 29 aircraft (Apart from present 4) will be completed. Till then IAF will use Ge 404 plus ELTA 2032 MMR

Enough time for radar esp now, engine also but lets see, because turbofans are very hard to get right and master

Then local engine/ radar will need to be tested as well, but GE engines can be used to induct another batch for keeping production line ongoing, plus entire point of LCA is to get local production, so both China and India will go the extra mile to shoulder programs.

For India, MKI + MRCA is the cushion that allows extended testing and FBW testing and weaponization for even new engine and radar, since overall IAF combat capability wont be harmed

What sort of “half baked nationalism” are you talking about? Do you even know my nationality?

:rolleyes:

Dassault was more than willing to share technology with India. The problems was that India was unwilling to pay.

For the LCA:
Wrong despite the few articles that you may have read to give you this interpretation, including one by Reddy in the Hindu so I mentioned it
Please check Vayumag for interview of SRValluri when he started the LCA project and negotiated with Dassault himself
Speaks of the “arrogance” of the Dassault team who felt they had a direct connection to the PMO and hence did not need to offer a good deal because they would be selected anyways
Dassault told that to the team himself
Hence India jumped at the chance to tie up with the US instead, when given access to technology

The highly bureaucratic India defense procurement establishment is notoriously difficult to deal with – something that is demonstrated by the long suffering saga of the BAE Systems Hawk deal, or the recently announced end to Mirage 2000 production.

For the LCA:
No doubt. But this was not the defense procurement establishment
These were a bunch of scientists with political sanction and hence high autonomy

Entirely different from the usual purchase procurement

For the Mirage:
Its wrong to assume that India would get full TOT of the Mirage in anyway
Either you are unaware of how deeply these things are negotiated and how hard fought they are
For example: evn Milan ATGM could be 70% made in India even tho India can make 100% (BDL already has substtute suppliers in local companies), because of contract, otherwise Indias license will be revoked. This has prevented India from making follow on variants as it would be contract violation

But now India is exporting Milan and getting export rights for codevelopment for follow on varianst too! What a change from Earlier and India Has Exported the MiLan to some countries

Because India today has economic strenght to show Euromissile the finger, and look to Sweden or anyone else or itself

So its not just payment or money but country’s own ability to make technological items plus competition from other suppliers who are now willing to treat India on good terms (Cold War is over and so India is not on as many export control lists)

For radars, THOMSON CSF asked India 2 not export spares for a radar it had indigenized (to sell to Indonesia) even tho contract did not specify it

To imagine India would have got 100% TOT or even extremely high % THEN for a Mirage is plainly wrong

Now with Indias economic power and offsets being widely accepted it is different story.

Todays India can afford launching multiple programs and giving money

Earlier India was dependent on license production as it was a cheap and best option to give local forces some quick induction but without spending time and money on making own stuff

Basically it is all about money and economic strength, plus changing political times which have dictated access to technology. Not just simple “pay and you get it” even from France.