FLIGHT Update

DATE:11/07/08
SOURCE:Flight International
Israel to supply India with Griffin 3 bomb guidance kits
By Arie Egozi

The Indian air force will procure Israel Aerospace Industries’ Griffin 3 laser-guided bomb.

Produced by IAI’s MBT division, the Griffin 3 is the most advanced version of a combat-proven guidance kit, which turns “dumb” bombs into highly accurate weapons with a claimed circular error of probability of less than 2m (6.5ft).

The conversion kit is compatible with the Mk82/83/84 general purpose bomb series, and comprises a front guidance section and a rear section with steering fins. The Griffin 3 provides a 12km (6.5nm) stand-off range against ground targets, while its flight trajectory and impact angle can be pre-programmed.

MBT claims the kit has a “much lower” price tag than comparable weapon systems.

India confirms ERJ-145 platforms for indigenous AEW&C programme
By Siva Govindasamy

India has signed a deal for three Embraer ERJ-145s that will be converted to carry an indigenous airborne early warning and control system payload. The Brazilian company will help India’s Defence Research & Development Organisation to fit its array antenna unit (AAU) onto the aircraft, with the first platform to be delivered in 2011. Financial details were not released, but the entire programme is expected to cost New Delhi around Rp18 billion ($412 million).

“The AEW&C system comprises many subsystems like radar and communication links that are being designed and developed by DRDO,” says the Indian defence ministry. “The various subsystems will be integrated into the ‘modified green’ aircraft by the DRDO and the fully fledged ERJ-145-based AEW&C will be flight tested for mission system in India by the DRDO along with the Indian air force from 2012.”

Embraer EMB 145 AEW

The development comes nine years after India’s original indigenous AEW&C programme came to a standstill after a Hawker Siddeley HS748 testbed with a prototype radar crashed. Several scientists who were integral to the programme were killed in the accident, and India has been trying to resurrect the programme since.

“In our commitment to a long-term relationship with the Indian government, we look forward to continue collaborating in strengthening the country’s airborne operational capabilities,” says Luiz Carlos Aguiar, Embraer’s executive vice-president for defence.

The modified ERJ-145 will have a service ceiling of 35,000ft (10,700m), a radar operational altitude of 25,000ft and extra internal fuel tanks to allow in-flight refuelling, says the DRDO. The primary sensor will be an active electronically scanned array radar with two planar arrays mounted on top of the fuselage in a dorsal unit, and capable of air and sea surveillance.

The secondary radar will have an identification friend or foe function, while communication and electronic support measures will also enable the aircraft to detect and identify hostile emitters. A self-protection suite will consist of missile approach and radar warning receivers, plus countermeasures dispensers.

Interoperability with other AEW&C aircraft and fighters will be provided using datalinks and a mission communications system providing UHF voice and data channels, says the DRDO. The ERJ-145s will complement three Ilyushin Il-76s equipped with Elta Systems Phalcon radars, the first of which will be delivered in September, and Indian navy Kamov Ka-31 radar picket helicopters.

Neighbouring Pakistan has objected to the purchase of the Phalcon systems, claiming that the capability could tilt the regional strategic balance in New Delhi’s favour. Islamabad is meanwhile acquiring four Saab 2000-based AEW aircraft with Saab Microwave Systems Erieye surveillance radars, plus one training aircraft.

From earlier:

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Aircraft
SubscribeYou are in: Home › Aircraft › News Article
DATE:13/02/07
SOURCE:Flight International
Bangalore air show: India progresses AEW&C scheme

Embraer offers Delhi technical assistance in integrating mission systems, while pitching ERJ-145 as the platform

India is slowly progressing its plans to indigenously develop an airborne early warning and control (AEW&C) mission system with some technical assistance from Embraer, which is pitching to supply its ERJ-145 regional jet as the platform.

The Indian Defence Research and Development Organisation’s Centre for Airborne Systems laboratory is leading the project, says M Natarajan, scientific adviser to the Indian defence minister.

“After detailed and thorough analysis, a baseline configuration has been evolved and finalised,” said Natarajan in a speech to the Aerospace Technologies – Challenges and Opportunities seminar held in conjunction with Aero India. “The scope of the AEW&C programme is to deliver two fully qualified systems to the Indian air force as part of phase one. An additional six to eight systems are contemplated as part of phase two,” he added.

Embraer, which has sold AEW&C versions of the ERJ-145 to Brazil, Greece and Mexico, says it has signed a memorandum of understanding with the Indian government to supply the twinjet as the platform.

“Our platform has been selected to carry the Indian radar, communications and self-protection systems,” says Embraer Asia Pacific vice-president international business, defence and government markets Sergio Bellato. “We supply the platform and support the programme with our expertise. We are not supplying technology.” Bombardier says a modified version of its Global Express remains a potential platform for the AEW&C system, but it is yet to make a decision on whether to bid.

Embraer has enjoyed some sales success with the Indian military, having supplied the air force with four ERJ-135-based Legacy 600 aircraft, and the country’s border security force with one aircraft.

The Brazilian manufacturer is also bidding to supply the air force with nine Legacy-based multi-mission aircraft for personnel transport, aerial survey/mapping, target-towing and jamming duties. “The government is analysing the technical proposals,” says Bellato.

Bombardier says it may also bid for the multi-mission requirement if a request for proposals is released. Israel Aerospace Industries, meanwhile, says it is proposing a Gulftream G200-based solution.

So its 3 AEW &C in the first phase, 2011 onwards, to be followed by a second phase with the Embraer or another aircraft with another 6-8 aircraft.

Meanwhile, another 3 Phalcons may be ordered in addition to the current 3.

It does not matter whether the IAC is built quickly or not, as soon as two of them are in the water expect Gorky to return to her seemingly natural state of not so well maintained pier side hulk.

Not going to happen. Despite the cost and the pain etc, the Gorshkov will definitely be used intensively.

The IN didnt cut its much harder to maintain Viraat & Vikrant any slack and they maintained punishing training and deployment schedules, and the Gorshkov will definitely be used likewise.

In fact, since it is the first experience – after a long while- of the IN operating conventional fighters from the Carrier, expect a very intensive series of trainign schedules for naval aviation to get upto scratch with the new MiG-29s.

The agreement is indeed for 26 F-16 from US stock. They are to be transferred from both the USAF and the USN.

The report only mentioned 10 as of yet which is what the USG notified the Congress of. Instead, they could have easily mentioned the entire 26 and delivery timelines, but they didnt.

The original intent may be for 26. But like I said time will tell. We’ll know for sure, once the second batch of 6 is delivered and we can see what the US states about more F-16s.

Given that PAF has a numerical disadvantage and is unlikely to cross the indian border, i would have thought the best bet they have is stand-off weapons of the type H2/H4 and Raad. And as such, they would be stocking up on those. Thats the best chance they have of hitting tactical targets inside india. The strategic targets would be left to the missiles.

True, but it all boils down to cost & how long the system can remain. With limited carriers which are due to be phased out, the PAF may well decide to be conservative with these systems & end up procuring more consistently for the JF-17 as and when it becomes A2G capable. The RAAD frankly, appears more PR than substance IMO, it appears way too huge and bulky for the Mirage. The H2/H4 are much more valid & potent weapons for the Mirages strike role. Only question is how many were ordered – PGMs tend to be very expensive. Even volume ones like the US items which benefit from economies of scale, tend to add on a lot of $$ and this, when they are relatively simple systems with guidance kits to the dumb bomb, not complete packages with dedicated propulsion etc. In that sense, Chinese PGMs may prove to be much cheaper. And Russian ones are also more bang for the buck.

good call.

The f-16 options are a bit different. Meaning in this case, no congressional approvals are required if PAF decides to exercise them. It is entirely up to the PAF to decide if they want those 18 additional F-16s. And given their fixation with the plane, i doubt they will say “no thanks”.

The delivery of the F-16s has speeded up since the democratic govt took charge. 2 arrived before elections and 10 have arrived after elections in less then 6 months. Much quicker delivery timescales.

Just read via some Pak newslink, that the US has notified Congress it would be sending 10 F-16s to Pak. In two batches of 4 & 6. Didnt mention 26.. I think we’ll get a clearer picture once the 2nd batch (of 6) arrives and we get to know what the US plans.

As it stands today pakistans armed forces are militarily inferior in quantity and quality the only thing left to ensure their survival is the prospects of using nuclear weapons. Kargil was not all out war nor was the border stand off in 2001 but that didnt stop the arming of nukes on missiles. unlike india pak does not have a NFU policy which is there deliberately to keep ambiguity.

What I was pointing out is that India recognises this, and hence wont hand a defeat that decimates the entire Pak military, or threatens its survival as a state. In the 80’s, India’s warplan was to reach the Indus, bisect Pak etc.

Today, it will be to engage in a limited conflict with limited aims. Say to destroy a Pak brigade or two as a punitive measure etc in Kashmir, seize a couple of passes being used for infiltration by militants, or the like.

Such has been made clear by Indian warplanners, otherwise Cold Start would not be publically declared, would it? It was done so that it becomes clear that CS is not meant to destroy Pak as a viable state.

In Kargil there was a risk of escalation to all out war, as the Indian Army was prepared to do so, if the war hadnt gone its way in Kashmir, and they would have struck across at another place of their choosing. Parakram was again a mobilization without aims made clear – from the Pak side, it could have been all out war.

Cold Start aims to avoid that ambiguity. Yes, there are risks & both sides will be wary, but it helps to state the aim before hand.

In war there is no rule as per say but countries are wary of the damage their foe could do and in this case both India and Pak will be wary to excallate any limited conflict this is why I think large amounts of aircraft engaging each other would constitute an escalation and I dont see that happening in the foreseeable future especially with relations being very warm.

My point was that if IAF does go “across”, then they will make sure they come back safely as well. No point in sending a limited strike package into a heavily defended zone without some basic precautions, like SEAD/ DEAD and escorts. Now whether that escalates is an entirely different issue.

The PAFS main role will be to protect its airspace, mostly a defensive role I dont think payload and range will come into this.

Payload and range do matter. While both the IAF & PAF can strike their respective tactical AFB located close to the border, a greater payload & range allows the IAF tactical surprise, it can start its strike packages from an AFB deeper in India which is not being radar surveilled by PAK ADGES @ the border. That apart, with more fuel & weapon options, the IAF package can be more potent. Each aircraft can carry a SPJ, more PGMs as well as A2A – and the pilots have more leeway in mission planning. They dont have to follow “as the crow flies” to their target.

Heavy fighters are of no use for the PAF unless they are planning on long range strike missions inside India which I dont think it part of the thinking there at this moment.

Which was my entire point about “deterrence”. The PAF’s planned F-16 fleet comes with an impressive array of JDAMs and LGBs- somebody may have the list of confirmed orders. But these aircraft will be severely overworked – they remain the best A2A asset, and now strike as well. With the Mirages to begin their phase out within the next few years & the JF-17 will definitely take at least 5-10 years to stabilise in production & induction & doctrine of employment.

Hence range also matters, because the IAF may well station only its shortlegged non IFR fighters at forward bases & keep its heavier, long ranged fighters much deeper in India, for reasons mentioned above. So to actually deter the IAF or rather at least hit back, the PAF may well have to hit bases in Central India or much deeper.

The lighter force of JF17s/F-16s/F7s with force multipliers and ground based radars/sams are meant to serve as a defensive deterance- I think the offensive would constitute of stand off munitions and cruise missiles.

Stand off Munitions & CMs are expensive. Plus to churn them out in scale so as to rely on them alone, one needs the kind of extensive infrastructure set up which I havent yet seen in Pak, ie manufacture of everything from turbojets, to INS systems etc. These appear to be high value imported units procured from outside Pak, like India’s Popeye purchase for its Mirage 2000’s.

My point is that defensive & deterrence dont exactly mix together. So if the IAF ties up the PAF & vice versa (assuming the better case for PAF), how exactly does this deter the IA? It too is bent upon achieving qual & quant superiority vs the PA & is beefing up its airborne assets such as weaponised anti tank choppers, and without PAF intervention, the PA may well lose the tactical fight in Cold Start. Which serves India’s warfighting aims & not Paks.

So in that sense, deterrence didnt work at all.

Where is that info regarding the TVC not being used from?

IAF FWIW

The delivery of the 26 was never meant to happen all at once. 10 have already come in and the rest will keep arriving until the number reaches 26.

Ok, I guess we can stop debating this – time will tell, otherwise we are going in circles.

Well. You and i can have our opinions. But the new govt has made no change to the options. The dont have to exercise those until the first 18 new F-16s have arrived. Until then, unless they cancel, the options stay on.

Options, remain options. Until they are exercised, I wouldnt count them. Same for the IAF. The MRCA is at 126 planned, not 176 etc with 50 options.

On the contrary, the US has speeded up the delivery of the F-16s from its own fleet to the PAF. 4 just arrived last month.

How is this speeding up? IIRC its just pulling them from existing detachments and sending them to Pak.

Media is full of many reports but one has to go by the facts. And the fact are that the US is proposing to triple the aid and has put the transfer of F-16s from its own stock on fast track.

Facts are that US- Pak ties have been on a downswing of late. And the US admin itself has limited political capital to expend.

I was talking about the plans beyond 2017. Ofcourse no 5th gen plans have been made but those 2 are the logical choices and i may be proven wrong. But there are no other 5th gen options that come to my mind.

My point was that these options which you are speaking of are not even mentioned by the PAF at any time. They are just focused on JF-17s, F-16s and a few J-10s.

And that may well be the case. All depends on how many Raad’s they are planning for.

With AWACS being acquired by India, I think the Air Launched RAAD is more of a PR move. It is the truck launched CM which is more of a bother, being highly mobile and hence its launch site not being known in advance.

Yes. Oil isnt getting any cheaper. Only saving grace for them is their fleet is single engined.

Even so, in the 90’s despite KSA aid, there were reports of cost cutting & flying training being hit, is it again the case?

Which is why i suspect about a 100 of the mirages may stay on longer then the original plan. Until the JF-17 A2G capabilities are proven.

How can they just be retained like that? Airframe life is finite, and the Mirages are already on their last legs. The ROSE Mirages represent the aircraft that could have more life extracted from them, and it has been done. How many years can they stay on?

Depends on the need of the hour. I still suspect that if the PAF calls for the hawkeyes, they will get to use it too. From whats ive heard, Navy gets last pickings. But we speculate on what may or may not happen. You may well be correct. No one knows the inner workings of what may happen and whether the AF may use them. But i was more pointing to the capability inhouse by the AF to use those assets if required.

The PAF cant just ask for Hawkeyes and they will be handed over. No professional services behave that way. Besides, there is the issue of logistics, of manning, of interservice network compatibility- building all these costs upfront into the Hawkeye acquisition would make it harder for the PN.

It would be more conservative to note that the PAF may go for a handful of less capable but cheaper Chinese AEW&C aircraft to back up its Erieyes.

But given 1 Erieye was cancelled from the original order by Pak, thanks to funding issues, I doubt this will be the case anytime soon.

Nor is the Hawkeye purchase confirmed.