Nick_76Speedy,
The Russians have declassed radar stealthing measures for the Sukhoi series. Its even been exported per reports, bringing frontal RCS to 3-5 Sq Mtr level.
The A2A weapons can be launched at high AoA et al, but the manouevers are showcased more to demonstrate the jets performance. And yes, they are useful in end game manoeuvers especially when trying to avoid BVR shots and the like, when you want to burn up the missiles energy & survive.
And a Flanker can use its fuel getting to station wihout having to jettison tanks – at half fuel load +10 BVR AAMs+ 2 WVR is quite manoeuverable and potent. Especially when it is IFR capable to maintain loiter & fuel reserves.
Nick_76..
It is not just the question of power, but also of gain, losses , dwell time and signal processing. NIIP and Phazotrons approaches can be significantly different, and Phaza’s public literature implies they dont know much about NIIPs work and have been focused differently.
Zhuk MSF never went into production. Unfortunately those figures are Phazas brochure speak.
Also the N001 figures are actually for different modes than ones quoted..
Nick_76If it shows a MFD & talks of an EW system, then its upgraded.
Abhimanyu,
The IAF will prefer to have a certain squadron strength of any type in service + attrition reserves, especially when it is going to the trouble of upgrading them. That is the point of acquiring a handful of new airframes, say 6-10 in number. Not of using the LCA vs the MiG-29 or vice versa.
There are 63 MiG-29s in service, coming to 21 per squadron. Remove 3 as war reserve per squadron.
Thats 16 single seaters, and two seaters.
While a decent figure, another 10 airframes would allow much more operational flexibility and come handy. They can all be at the newest upgrade standard. The IAF can afford the purchase as well.
Coming to the LCA vs MiG-29, with the upgrade, the latter are going to be extremely potent birds. While in terms of avionics performance, the LCA might be equivalent in some respects, the MiG-29s raw airframe performance is likely to be competitive or superior in other areas. So I wouldnt write it off at all.
Even in the WW context, the upgrade package determined for the IAF MiG-29s is quite comprehensive, and includes the brand new Imaging IRST/ TV Channel equipped developed for the MiG-35.
Nick_76The whole problem is the capabilities the F/A-18 E/F offers can be matched with some TLC and combining Israeli/ 3rd party gear by the Euro canards.
And the Rafale & EF appear to be far better in A2A in terms of growth potential, for BVR which is increasingly the norm.
Which is why I am chary of the F/A-18 E/F political stuff about sanctions, and US policy vs Pak apart. (Will the State Dept allow India to go to war with SD policy favourite Pak with F/A-18’s if indo-pak relations go south?).
Nick_76Coldfire, this seems to indicate that the Eltas were integrated on the Jaguars..
I kind of remember, based on some previous discussion, the BR page is based on some Janes report as well, and we know how hit and miss Janes can be.
http://indianairforce.nic.in/show_page.php?pg_id=143
SOFTWARE DEVELOPMENT INSTITUTE
Mile Stones
Integration of LDP, LGB, VOR, ILS, TACAN, VRS, ELTA, Radar on Jaguar
aircraft.
Another thing is everything else on that page is already developed stuff, including the MiPSys which are deployed on the Bison and MiG-27 Upg. & were developed by DRDO & SDI.
So it does seem that the Jag upgrade did take place.
Anyone have that TimesNow episode on Naval Jags? Does it mention a new radar? Or show MFDs etc in the cockpit?
Nick_76Thanks! So it could be the IM upgrade. But there was definitely a prototype with 2032 a couple of years back unless my memory has failed me. :confused:
Nick_76Dj,
Thats provided India gets the same level of kit, the Aussies are getting – at least, with the same level of tech access as promised by the Russians and the Gripen team. I havent heard much about the same from the Euros, the only stuff from EF is about “India joining the EF team”, well, errm sure, but what exactly does that mean?
Ok:
APG-79,
—> Ericc. NORA/ Thales AESA, Selex Captor-E
Hype apart, how good is the APG-79 in A2A in raw parameters, such as range?
JHMCS,
—> All a/c have comparable HMS
ATFLIR,
–> Litening 3
IRST, —>
On a fuel tank?!?!
IDECM, ALE-50,
—> Similar stuff on all competitors. COTS FOTD can be integrated if required
AIM-120C7/D,
—> Beaten by Meteor, but superior to RVV-AE
AIM-9X
—> ASRAAM, Python-5, IRIS-T
JDAM, JSOW,Harpoon/SLAM, Paveway 2/3, HARM, JASSM, and Mk 80 series dumb bombs.
Off the shelf equivalents are available but more expensive…SPICE, AASM etc.
I think the F/A-18 E/F’s weakest point is its draggy airframe & lack of dash speed, making it a subpar performer airframe wise for BVR..?
Nick_76Jaguar IM were supposed to get 2032 but after Darin-II upgrade came up for airforce ,Jaguar IM upgrade was put on hold i think
Source?
Nick_76The Vavuniyaa base had one of the Indra-II RADARs. The criticism of this Indra-II RADAR has been pretty much put to rest. It works fine… It does its job. Thats the very reason the LTTE targeted it….
That says it all, I guess. 😉
The system details are here:
http://www.bel-india.com/index.aspx?q=§ionid=239
The IAF ordered 7 Indra -2 radars just a couple of years back, of the latest variant. At the time, the then Air Chief Krishnaswamy had praised it to the gills, calling it excellent and what not.
In one of the reports above, an attempted LTTE attack was foiled when their aircraft were detected at ~60 and 44 km respectively. Thats according to spec.
So, the LTTE seems to be rather worked up over the radar & Indian assistance.
But given that they bumped off an Indian PM on Indian soil, what did they expect, hugs & kisses?
Anyways, the one sad thing about all this is how the Tamil people are suffering thanks to the actions of that egotistical idiot Prabhakaran. If he was a bit more sane, he would have negotiated for autonomy or what not, and called an end to this useless war. But the Generalissimo will never give up power, will he. And that I think, just plays into the hands of hardliners in the SL Govt.
Its a win win situation for the guys who want war because it suits their interests (IMHO), and the common Sri Lankans (on both sides), suffer for it.
Nick_76don’t just use that number from the face of it. Other than my previous assertion that Chinese testing determined it didn’t achieve that kind of range. A lot of the maximum detection range you read for these radar are for the so called velocity search mode. The tracking range in RWS mode is less than that and the lock-on range is even less.
China hasnt tested Irbis. The first partial specced Irbis entered flight trials only relatively recently and range characteristics were but recently validated. You might be mistaking it for the Pero upgrade which was actively marketed to the PRC.
Second, the full spec Irbis/or even a moderately capable one is not going to be available to the PRC for export (IMHO), this is based on conversation with Rosoboronexport folks who said it was not going to be cleared by the Comittee for State Security, (some bureaucratic name) which is the nodal authority for determining exports. NIIP et al dont get to decide policy at this level. This of course, apparently happened to Phazatron earlier who saw a good chance to upstage NIIP as the radar supplier to the PRC get blocked, as their newer Zhuk radar variants were similarly blocked, and they were forced to offer capabilities which didnt appeal to the PRC much vs its own sets. After the J-11 spat recently, I am reasonably sure of the above.
I think the PRC has also decided one way or the other, that its prudent to rely on homegrown sets which can operate its range of missiles and other armament. While the Irbis would be a definite help, the PRC’s investment into a largeish AWACs fleet and network centricity would make a much more substantial difference & that coupled with own retrofitted FCRs plus PL-12s should be quite sufficient for their needs, coupled with the excellent aero performance of the baseline Flanker.
Nick_76Radar system doesnt necessarily mean a FCR. It could mean something like the Elta 2060 SAR pod which is already being fitted to the MKIs as well.
Check http://www.iai.co.il for features.
The other option is it being a 2032 to bring more Jaguars to IM configuration or something similar, but this is extremely doubtful, given the number of Sukhois entering service, and that too they have access to the Kh-31A for Anti ship work.
Nick_76It was a matter of time before the LTTE’s luck ran out. Their first strikes worked because of luck or intell which allowed them to strike when the radar was down for repairs. The SLAF hadnt activated it after repairs since they didnt anticipate an attack.
Now with alert status, the LTTE has got its comeuppance. But audacious campaign from them though, flying those birds all the way and attacking the way they did.
Nick_76Looks like the LTTE’s good times were over.
The Indra2 radars picked up their strike attempts.
http://www.sundayobserver.lk/2008/08/31/sec03.asp
The link might be updated though …sunday observer doesnt keep archives..
The Indra-II radars located in Vavuniya first detected the take off of two aircraft of the LTTE from a location from Mullaitivu, on Tuesday at 8.45 p.m. The message has been first conveyed to the officer in charge of the Air Defence System to alert the relevant authorities about this suspicious air movement.
With the sudden detection of the take off of the two Tiger aircraft the SLAF identified that they were moving towards the South along the coastal belt.
As it was obvious that the direction of the two aircraft was towards Trincomalee, the Colombo Air Force operation room gave a signal to Trincomalee to be alert on the situation.
As a precautionary measure instructions were given to switch off the lights in Trincomalee and to cut off communications systems in Trincomalee.By this time the Sri Lanka Air Forces and the Sri Lanka Navy were ready with their Air Defence System and anti aircraft guns.
Nick_76Hindustan Aeronautics completes first phase of Jaguar upgrade programme
Press Trust Of India / New Delhi September 09, 2008, 11:23 ISTThe first phase of the upgrade programme for Jaguars, deep-penetration strike aircraft of Indian Air Force, has been successfully completed, which will add more lethality to the fleet’s long-range ground attack capability.
The upgrade programme, considered significant to maintain effective airpower strength of the type, was carried out by aerospace and defence manufacturing major Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL).
“We successfully completed the first phase of the upgrade programme for the Jaguar aircraft and delivered the fleet to Indian Air Force,” General Manager of HAL’s Aircraft Design and Research Centre P L Vaishampayan told PTI here.
Vaishampayan said the upgrade programme included a new version of avionics apart from other features which would make the planes more lethal for the long-range ground attack operation.
“The upgrade programme has added more teeth to the fleet’s striking capability.”
The main focus of the upgrade programme was to replace the older version of the avionics in the aircraft with a new version, known as display attack ranging inertial navigation (Darin-3).
The HAL is carrying out another development programme for the Jaguar fleet which includes additional features like an advanced radar system.
“Another development programme is going on for the strike aircraft to add some additional features like advanced radar systems which IAF wants,” Vaishampayan said.
http://www.business-standard.com/india/storypage.php?tp=on&autono=46216
So all 40 Upgraded Jaguars have been delivered, plus around 30 new builds. IIRC the remaining 3-4 new builds are to be handed over next year.
Nick_76i donot think we have any attrition replacements being ordered for mig-29 but sure mig will have plently of mig-29s in stock recently i think algeria returned some migs
I do think the Russians will offer MiG-29s to the IAF, and its upto the IAF/MOD whether they can pick up a few…
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