As far as I can make out Indian indiginous development programs often lack focus leading to drift and delays.

What focus is this, and which programs lacked focus? How can this focus overcome technical problems?

Local ship building seems to be working out better but even then they do use a great deal of foreign input.

China, Korea, Japan all rely on a great deal of foreign input for their ships- so? :confused:

The F-16 being the PAF’s prime and most advanced aircraft, should be the first candidate for IFR. It would extremely strange if they are permanently left with no IFR capability and that’s what would happen if the IL-78 was selected. Aircraft like the A330MRTT can refuel both the F-16 and aircraft with IFR probes. An aircraft with a boom can also be modified with a hose and drogue. This claim of an Ukranian refueler does’nt seem right.

The JF-17 could be short legged and hence require IFR for adequate persistence. The F-16s have adequate # of pylons to carry more fuel plus longer basic range.

As a professional scientist I would never start a project unless im fairly certain that i have the means to carry it out and that it is likely to produce some results.

Yes, and if the time taken for the results is long or you experience unforeseen difficulties midway or towards the conclusion, its established practise to ask for a peer review.

ACM is right. Pak does not have an advanced aviation sector for Gripen ToT, and even for JF-17 it would come gradually. He recognises his country’s limitations in this sector and that’s why Pakistani scientist are learning from others’ experiences in established fields before they might experiment in years to come.
During my postgrad years, i optimised and validated a novel technique that was originally developed by one of my colleagues. I have since trained others in use of that technique. Of course, these others could have experimented and learnt as they went alson, but getting me involved saved them time and money.
More and more companies are joining hands to conduct aviation R&D. And the logic is to save time & money as well as increasing profit margin.

I agree, but whilst you recognise this salient fact- afraid to say others dont. They bear reminding that the JF-17 is indeed a licensed production program & that Pakistans aerospace industry has quite some time to go before it even attempts to develop its own products, and face the trials and tribulations associated with such ventures.

If they could customise something to match their own needs, i think its not too far fetched to suggest that they might also provide some assistance in its R&D. Or is it?

The degree of customization is the issue-

For the MiG-21 Bison, India provided (a search on this very forum has info under Harrys posts ) –
Cockpit instrumentation
Radios
IFF
RWR & jamming equipment
Mission planning equipment
Assistance with avionics integration and test rigs

But you understand that the Bison project is still majority Russian? That the Indian contribution pales before what they did? And that India despite providing money & assisting with subsystems like above, is still a license manufacturer of the MiG-21 & for that matter, for India to claim that it codeveloped the Bison upgrade is a flight of fancy given the Russian input?
If that were indeed the case, then its also logical to state that at this point of time, the JF-17 is indeed a CATIC product which Pakistan is license manufacturing. No harm in that, and its good for Pakistan, but some of the more outrageous claims by other gentlemen on this matter, do need to be corrected.

The drill display is at 54: 30 onwards.

The IAF chief also gives some interesting detail about IAF modernisation much before that @ 36:00 minutes.

The Air Chief having a blast..:p

Thats right.We are just waiting for the news on amraam integration on the JF- 17.

And the order of eight Chinese AWACs as Greenday repeatedly claimed.

I do to some extent, as well a few other members on Pakdef.info. Why we have choosen not to post this info plus a hell of a lot more is due to our own discretion. We regularly discuss what goes on amongst ourselves privately and all of us have decided that it is better for us not to post these things in public without permission from our individual sources or even pm them to people whom we don’t know.
An example an Indian member here called Golden arrow used to get on the case of the K-8 and Pakistan’s contribution in it. Truth being we were involved in it as well as the Thunder to a very large extent than is either known or divulged publicly. Hell my own chacha was involved in the K-8’s design team from PAF’s side along with many other PAF personnel and is now working on the Thunder design team. But whatever I get to know from him or other sources wrt Pakistan’s role is kept to me myself and the other people I’ve mentioned in my post. It’s only after we discuss among ourselves and consult with our sources that we decide what we ought to put forward for public consumption. And so far we have decided to post zilch details of our contributions in both the K-8 and JF-17 programmes. Just because it ain’t on the net does not meant that it does not exist.

Lets not get into all this “my chacha (uncle) knows something” but I cant tell you business…
Even I & several other members can get into the secret sources business.

The question is simple. What is Pakistans contribution to the JF-17 program in terms of own design and subsystem manufacture? Has Pakistan (for example)-

-Provided manufacturing technology
– Substantial contribution to the Avionics
– Done a portion of the design

Without evidence of any sort, this chacha business simply doesnt make any sense. Facts are, that CATIC has moreorless done all the work on the JF-17, with PAF acting in a loose advisory role, similar to what India did for its MiG-21 Bisons, but even in the latter- India provided several avionics items at the very least. The PAF may have “Advised” the CATIC designers to modify elements or acted in a user customization mode (that display symbology is better on the F-16, do it this way etc) but the heavy lifting is done by the Chinese side since it is their engineers who made the components and reconfigure it. The rest of the items are from third party vendors, again who developed these items themselves and will assist in system integration.

We would be interested in knowing what the PAF has done here, since some Pakistani members on this board (as seen by your statement) keep stating that Pakistan has contributed a lot for the JF-17. So, funding apart- where are the Pakistani avionics, etc?

We have comparisons between the JF-17 & other programs. Well, it must also be stated that the JF-17 is a Pakistani license production program, since the contribution from the Pak side, appears to be of a similar nature.

Redgriffin
Dude, dont bother, these guys are here to stir it.
They thought we could not do Cruise Missiles, order submarines, etc etc.
When news is release they crawl back. Leave it be.

We must live in fear of their Akash, Arjun, LCA and bow our heads down

A simple question bothers you so much? Dont be afraid, just answer the question.

Hardly, this is what you get from search. Lots of refernces to JF-17 but not the answer.
http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/search.php?searchid=636697

True, there is not a single proven reference of any JF-17 subsystem being designed & developed by Pakistan. Nor on this forum, so asking rayr. to use the search function is meaningless. :confused:
There are some references to Pakistan sending a handful of PAF engineers, and a few flight test crew to China- but this is done by most AF’s worldwide for any new induction being developed in another country.

So anybody know the answer,?