Yes pls do tell us why this is such a deperate and pathetic move.
A sale is a sale, does it matter by whom?

A sale is a sale but the selling strategy employed by some Russian agency is pathetic to say the least.

If somebody is not interested in your stuff, just dont lying, shouting and even badmouting to the world that as if they want your stuff badly and yet you dont want to sell it to them because you want to protect your UFO-teched stuff froming being stolen by them.

You know, when someone dont buy your stuff, then just quit quietly and move on, dont try to badmouth them, it can get backfired.

Thats the Chinese source for Russian refused to sell China Mi-24

http://mil.news.sina.com.cn/p/2008-09-28/0920523461.html

The Russisan source cited in this article is called aviation bay site or something, the name of the russian reporter is, to be honest, I dont know how to translate that, should be something like Dmitri Legentov something.

Anyone here can read both Chinese and Russian?

It is almost comedic, the russians has helped “sold” China Su-33/35/37, PAK-FA, MiG-29/31, Tu-22, T-80MBT and Mi-24 gunship for all these years.

So far the only one rumor among all these that remotely confirmed by China source is that China did had shown some interests in Mi-24, and guess what?

The Chinese side of story about Mi-24 is that a Chinese general,during his visist to Russia, shown interests for Mi-24 but HE ONLY PREFER TO PAID MI-24 ROUGHLY THE SAME UNIT PRICE AS A BENZ SEDAN, and thats the exact reason why Russians rejected the deal.

Apparently that is quite a world apart from the russian side of story on how China want Mi-24 and how Russians refused to sell them due to MI-24 has some UFO techs there (the logic itself is comedic especially considering the fact russians had no problem selling Su-27 to China then).

Regarding PAK-FA, actually there are at least two Chinese general, General Luo Yuan and General Xu Guangyu, offically and independently confirmed that China IS NOT interested in them.

Their stories are consistent, both said during later 1990s, Russians promote the 5th generation fight project laterly evolved into PAK-FA to China, called for joint-development, the Chinese side, after reviewing the Russians’ proposal, rejected that offer,citing the fact that PLAAF’s primary opponent is F-22,and the Chinese need an air-superiority fighter that can neturalize it, yet Chinese dont believe the Russian proposal can achieve that goal.

And that is happened in later 1990s, and that is the PAK-FA, from this baseline now everyone can pretty much have a good estimation about how much “interests” China could still have for su-35 in 2012.

Clear J-20 is PLA’s principle air-superiority fighter that is optimized for AoA missions.

There is a conventional layout J-1X,which has large wing area, will be a striker, under development at SAC.

As for the noobish attempts on J-20’s manueavirity based on wing-area compuation, I would say, how about leave it to experters?

Aerodynamics and fluid dynamics, as of now, is not a mature science, thats they need so many experiments to test their designs.

Wind tunnels test > any numerical simulations>>>primative theories.

As for J-20, actually if you spending some time reading the Chief scientist of J-20 project’s 2003’s paper, you would have already known the J-20’s low wing area is actually one of the primary innovative design point:

According to Song’s wind tunnel test, actually coupling canard with leading edge will makes fighter become extermely agile without large wing spans (and large wing areas), actually wind tunnel testing suggesting at the phase of interests, a “strange phonoemen” arise, the smaller the wing spans, the higher the lift created due to the complicate wind field created by the coupling carcards, lead edges, main wings etc.

So by doing this, their design can both optimize the performance of the fighter at low and high machs, instead of have to making a trade-off like the other designs.

Thats why the title of his paper is: a low-wing span-ratio highly agiled fighter design.

So lets not wasting our time on this pointless and amaterish discussion, and leave it to true experters, thanks.

About SF’s 5th generation fighter, according to very reliable source (the guy has correctly “predicted” highly detailed information regarding J-20, including the time for its maiden flight):

1) SAC’s 5th generation protype has been ready now;

2) It will take maiden flight between the end of 2011 to the first half of 2012.

3) The fighter is heavier and bigger than J-20, could have larger internal weapon bay.

4)The fighter is more “multi-roled” comparing to J-20, which is a more classic air-superiority fighter.

5)The fighter has conventional layout like F-15/22/SU-27/PAK-FA, etc, with the exception of adding a pair of large leading edges, the stomach of it is flat, like the case of F-22, unlike PAK-FA.

6)The fighter is largely a self-funded project, aiming to be the lower end of 5th generation for PLAAF, and should have a better ground-attack capability comparing to J-20. The fighter would also have the 4″S”, but the performance of the 4S will be considerably lower than J-20.

7)The design of J-20 is optimized for supercrusie and super-maunveruity, the rear end of J-20 and the arrangement of J-20’s landing gears are not suitable for the fighter to take-off/landing at aircraft-carriers unless considerable adjustments and re-design have been made, in contrast, the SAC’s 5th generation fighter’s design and its multi-role nature give it more potential to get orders from PLAN.

7)Regarding the cost, the guy is not optimsitc that it can be cheaper than J-20 to make, since (1)The fighter is larger (2) SAC has rather poor record on cost-control (3) SAC’s mother company, AVIC, regarding this project as a way to get money for not just SAC but also all its rather uncompetitive sub-companies, this is completely different than the case of CAC’s J-20, which largely using open-bidding to decide its sub-system providers, not just limit their options to AVIC’s own companies.

Its time to have another good laugh over the jokes come regularly from russia::diablo:

Source: http://en.rian.ru/world/20110620/164727664.html

China’s 5G fighter ‘a showoff’

China’s fifth-generation fighter program is more for effect than substance, Russia’s leading aircraft maker said on Monday.

China carried out its first test-flight of a fifth-generation stealth fighter in January.

“It was more a demonstration than a real program,” Mikhail Pogosyan, head of United Aircraft Corporation, said.

The Chinese aircraft industry is developing successfully but it lacks what is required for a breakthrough, he said.

“There will be no breakthroughs here. Great scale and great experience are needed to carry out such programs,” Pogosyan said.

Russia is testing its own fifth-generation aircraft T-50 PAK FA developed by the Sukhoi design bureau. The aircraft is expected to become operational in 2015.

China’s prototype Black Silk J-20 stealth fighter is thought to be similar to the U.S. F-22 Raptor and the Russo-Indian T-50 jets, although imagery and video footage appearing on the internet suggested the Chinese model is larger. This means it could be capable of flying a longer range and carrying a heavier load.

China has been working on a future fighter program since the mid-1990s, and the J-20 is notionally anticipated to enter service around 2018-2020.

The most priceless part is this is actually come from the mouth of the top techinical officer in russia aero-industry, not the average annoying russian/indian su-27 fanboys.

And you still wonder why the best they manage to deliever, after all these years’s entertaining and endless brags, merely looks like a su-27 get rolled? :diablo: