dark light

ABIX Boss

Forum Replies Created

Viewing 11 posts - 1 through 11 (of 11 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • in reply to: Air-Britain DC3 Book…… #1312156
    ABIX Boss
    Participant

    Book cover

    in reply to: how do I include images #1322216
    ABIX Boss
    Participant

    Thanks

    in reply to: how do I include images #1322219
    ABIX Boss
    Participant

    Thanks

    ABIX Boss
    Participant

    Cover illustration

    in reply to: Seafire #1304142
    ABIX Boss
    Participant

    Seafire N47SF

    For a chance to compare colour schemes see this shot of the Mk.47

    http://www.abpic.co.uk/photo/1000263/

    Pete

    in reply to: Can anyone identify this Britannia fuselage? #1393923
    ABIX Boss
    Participant

    OK, its a mock-up, but not in the same sense as the C130’s…

    I cannot believe there would be no record in the company archives, that is a lot of work, fittings, cockpit and cabin glass, doors on the belly holds etc.

    Its not something someone could knock-up over lunch!

    Pete

    in reply to: Can anyone identify this Britannia fuselage? #1395899
    ABIX Boss
    Participant

    The ‘fleet’ at DMS Brize is….

    C130K Mk.1 Mock-up
    C139K Mk.3 Mock-up
    C130J Mk.4 mock-up

    VC10 XX914 cut’n’shut . Has front hold, rear hold and enough of the rest to give a 20 foot cabin upstairs. It is mounted such that the belly hold doors and main freight door upstairs are at actual heights. Was still being robbed for bit for the active fleet up to about 5 years back!

    Also have Gazelle ZB684
    Lynx XZ174 (Cabin section only)
    Harrier GR3 XZ994.

    Pete

    in reply to: Can anyone identify this Britannia fuselage? #1396145
    ABIX Boss
    Participant

    Brize Brit

    Evening.

    Things we do know….(99.9%)

    The fuselage from ATDU Abingdon was passed on the the AMTS at Abingdon in December 1966. It was in service with ATDU June 1966 (From the photo)

    Looking at the photo of 12875 this is not going to be the source.

    We now need to establish what airframes were in service June 1966 that then cannot be the one in the photo. From those then left over we should try to establish 100% what they were doing in June 1966.

    This may give us a list of candidates, but suspect it wont! Are we sure no other frames were withdrawn from the production line?

    Looking again at the school today I can find no photos of the frame with us. The photographic section at Brize do not hold any archives older than 2-3 years so nothing to be found there. AHB and PRO (TNA) Kew may have something. RAFM Hendon may also be worth a look.

    A friend has checked the RAF ‘M’ serial ledger and there is no entry for a Brit…

    Again, someone who worked on it suffered in the belly holds enough to confirm it was a proper airframe and not a mock up, all the right features were there.

    Pete Webber
    Also sat in Swindon…developing into a local thread now!

    in reply to: Can anyone identify this Britannia fuselage? #1398060
    ABIX Boss
    Participant

    Brize Brit…yet more (JATE)

    This from the JATEU web site….

    The Joint Air Transport Evaluation Unit (JATEU) has it origins in the Army’s Airborne Forces Development Centre (AFDC), located at Amesbury Abbey, and the RAF’s Airborne Forces Tactical Development Unit (AFTDU) at Tarrant Rushton. These units were amalgamated into the Army Air Transport Development Unit (ATDU) located at RAF Abingdon.

    In January 1968, the Joint Air Transport Establishment (JATE) was formed with its headquarters at Old Sarum, Wiltshire which at the time was also the home of the Joint Warfare Establishment (JWE) and the Army Air Transport Development Centre (AATDC). The initial JATE Organisation was based on a consortium of three separate units, operating under the co-ordinated control of Headquarters JATE. The three units in question comprised of the Army’s long serving AATDC, AFTDU and a new organisation titled the Joint Helicopter Development Unit, (JHDU). The JHDU added a Naval presence within the JATE organisation. There was a close link between JWE and JATE with the post of JATE Commandant being combined with the Deputy Commandant at JWE.

    In 1970 the MOD decided JATE should be based entirely at RAF Abingdon (the home of ATDU) and the close ties with JWE ceased. It was also decided that the main element of JHDU should become independent of JATE and remain at Old Sarum under the new title of Joint Helicopter Tactical Development Unit (JHTDU). JATE retained one section, made up of personnel of AATDC’s Helicopter Section, concerned with helicopter underslung loads, internal load clearance work and techniques for carriage of troops by helicopter.

    The move to Abingdon was completed in February 1973. In combination with the move, a more unified structure was introduced. The separate identities of AATDC and ATDU were formally discarded although the various sections remained identifiable with their earlier affiliations. Under the new structure the sections comprised: Heavy Drop, Air Despatch, Airportability, Infantry/Signals and Training Sections (all ex-AATDC), together with Air Logistics and Aircraft Engineering Sections (ATDU background), Helicopter Section (JHDU/AATDC background) Design Drawing Office (made up of personnel from both AATDC and ATDU) and Flying Section (Hercules aircraft) which was special to JATE.

    As a result of a government defence review in 1974, it was decided to move JATE to RAF Brize Norton . Thus on 31 December 1975 JATE HQ was formally established at its present site.

    While it gives us nothing on the airframe, it helps with the overall picture.

    Pete Webber

    in reply to: Can anyone identify this Britannia fuselage? #1398064
    ABIX Boss
    Participant

    Brize Brit – more?

    Looking at the photo of the ATDU frame and the one on the dump at Brize I am certain both are the same. Still no nearer to knowing which it is though.

    One I would like to float for consideration is

    C/N 12875 VX454 NTU by MoS – Used for functional Mock-up. (From TAHS production list)

    How complete was this, what functions etc….

    Just to go over earlier history again, both the Air Movements Training School (Titles on the ‘dump’ aircraft) and the ATDU were at Abingdon in the sixties. ATDU at some stage became JATE (Now JATEU) at Brize, the Movements school also moving in 1972. We know from the School F540 that we used the Brit from December 1966, the ATDU photo being June 1966.

    I think for now this is a pretty tight case that the ATDU frame became the AMTS one…..ID is the problem.

    Pete Webber
    (Will phone a mate on JATE tomorrow and try to get the dates they moved…)

    in reply to: Can anyone identify this Britannia fuselage? #1398619
    ABIX Boss
    Participant

    Brize Brit

    Evening all, now registered and able to join in direct.

    The photo of the ATDU frame looks like a good candidate, I need to figure out the time line of it being in use with us (at the school) from Dec 1966. ATDU became JATE, need to find out when the unit changed name and moved to Brize.

    The one in the photo is longer than the one in the Brize photo, looks to extend further aft. But when AMTS moved from Abingdon to Brize they must have brought the frame (which ever one it is!) with them. The new length in the Brize dump shot might just fit nicely on a Queen Mary trailer?

    The frame when used at Brize is a proper fuselage. One of my workmates used it in his training and can confirm the holds were both in place downstairs, and fully metaled. No mock-up would have that.

    We need to see some details from Abingdon in the sixties, ATDU F540 at Kew would look next if anyone is going that way soon.

    Great thread.

    Pete Webber
    Movements school Brize

Viewing 11 posts - 1 through 11 (of 11 total)