So are frontline Ejercito pilots flying air-to-ground sorties, Roberto? Or is it more a trials/operational evaluation kind of thing?

I don’t think they’ve even fit-checked it on Rafale (or Typhoon, come to that), though the UK has finally said that it will fund integration of DMB on Typhoon.

Mildave,

Now that really is funny!

From JDW:

02-Apr-2012

“Saudi Arabia to proceed with Typhoon upgrade ahead of partner nations”

The Royal Saudi Air Force (RSAF) is forging ahead with plans to give its Typhoons a full swing-role capability and may even leverage aspects …

Mildave,

I have not told anyone that Typhoon has been flying with ‘mock up equipment’. I do not understand that to have been the case.

I have said that though PIRATE is flying and in use by frontline squadrons, I believe that it is not (or was not, until very recently) formally regarded as being in service. I recognise that that is an odd and contradictory state of affairs, and my guess is that PIRATE was viewed as being so useful that there was a compelling reason for it to be fitted and used, but that the powers that be didn’t want to declare it as being properly ‘in service’ before development was complete.

I’ve spoken to British AND French pilots who have flown both aircraft, and to pilots from a number of potential export customers who have either flown both, or who have flown both in the rig, or hwo have flown one ‘for real’ and the other in the rig or simulator.

I haven’t spoken to any German, Italian or Spanish Typhoon pilots who have flown Rafale, and indeed I don’t know whether there have been any such ‘exchanges’.

You may recall that two Typhoon pilots were given familiarisation flights in Rafale during ATLC in 2009, and that two Rafale pilots flew Typhoon on the same basis. That was the first time that I was aware of, but there have been a number of similar sessions of mutual flying since then, and there may have been some before that, for all I know.

I believe that one UK RN pilot is converting to, or has just converted to the Rafale M, though he has not flown Typhoon. I would assume that there will be some kind of reciprocal exchange from the Aéronavale.

Breguet,

You’re right. I’m not writing about aerospace as a hobby, and I’m not a PR rep.

Eagle 1

The Tranche 2 Typhoon was pretty poor with SRP 5.0 (it was based on 4.0 and introduced its own bugs and problems).

It is much better with SRP 5.1, but SRP 10 and 12 (P1EA and P1EB) will transform the aircraft’s capabilities, with revolutionary changes to MMI, DASS, and other areas. For Typhoon this is a seismic step change.

P1E is fully funded, and development of P1EA is complete. Some opeval has already begun (Typhoons of 17 have done a lot of work on P1EA, including end to end drop testing of PWIV and Litening 3. The software load is to go to NETMA in early May. P1EB is also fully funded, and development test flying is continuing.

I’m looking into the schedule at the moment.

My claims about P1E are based on first hand interviews with the project’s TPs and senior engineers.

MMI and situational awareness are not necessarily connected. You could have an aircraft with poor MMI, where the pilot has to work like a one armed paper hangar, and whose displays are confusing, and whose modings are counter intuitive, but that nonetheless delivers up a very comprehensive picture of the battlespace, where an aircraft with superb MMI might have a much more limited picture, perhaps because its sensor fusion is immature, or because one of the sensors is below par.

Your militaryphotos source is misleading, in that it seems to suggest that Typhoon doesn’t display fused tracks, with an indication of which sensor they were detected by. It does. Just like Rafale.

Captain Romain seems to be either a fool or a scoundrel, if he’s seriously trying to claim that Typhoon and Gripen are previous-generation aircraft compared to Rafale. They aren’t. And he hasn’t flown them.

As to Pete Collins, he plainly liked Rafale. But he has no experience of Typhoon, Gripen, nor indeed of any other comparable aircraft. His last frontline type was the Harrier GR3, and after ETPS he went to the RAE at Bedford – not to a TP job where comparative evaluation of combat fast jets was required or practiced. His conclusions should be seen in that light.

To conclude, Typhoon’s MMI is better than Rafale’s. All the pilots I’ve spoken to (frontline and test pilots) who have flown both types say so. Unanimously. There aren’t many areas where I’d make such a black and white claim, but Typhoon’s superior MMI is one of them, along with its better supersonic performance, while Rafale’s greater programme maturity and wider weapons integrations, and Rafale’s superior Elint/Sigint capabilities would be others.

I have some experience flying fast jets. I have sat in Rafale and Typhoon many times and flown neither. I would not presume to judge comfort or ergonomics without flying both for a significant number of hours. But I know enough to dispute any claim of clear superiority when it comes to comfort and ergonomics. Certainly, the reports from Typhoon pilots who flew eight hour sorties over Libya (and longer) would indicate that Typhoon’s cockpit is comfortable enough, and ergonomic enough.

Breguet

In 2018, Eurofighter GmbH will announce a major breakthrough that some dared to compare with the discovery America by Christopher Columbus in 1492.

Very funny, but I’m merely alerting people to forthcoming news. It has nothing to do with AESA.

Jackonicko/Jon Lake promises us breakthrough capabilities, but I ain’t seen shyte in the news.

You will do. And you can easily find out for yourself what is in P1E and what it means. And just because you haven’t read it yet doesn’t mean that it hasn’t happened.

Scorpion,

HEA will gain more A-G functionality with P1E, cueing Litening 3, and allowing the input of navigational waypoints and targets of opportunity.

Opit,

Maybe you should follow Scorpion’s example. It would be nice if someone on the Rafale side did.

Opit,

I’m not bashing the Germans. EF GmbH is a quadrinational company, and it’s presently led by an Italian, and its comms chief is Italian, with a UK deputy. I think that it, and its constituent companies, have all signally failed to communicate the content and significance of P1E. I’m not being nationalistic about this.

Eagle compared P1E to the Rafale upgrades, and (I believe) underestimated its scope and significance. I’m happy to continue with his point of comparison.

Eagle 1

I’ve given you a flavour of P1E. It’s a seismic shift, and it makes more of a difference to the Typhoon’s capabilities than does the step from Rafale F2 to F3. You might say that it needs to, as F2 Rafale was already pretty impressive, so the F3 upgrade represented an evolution rather than a revolution.

As to MMI, it’s you who are talking nonsense. There is nothing old fashioned about Typhoon’s cockpit layout, but in any case, MMI is all about how the displays work, not where they are positioned. The Swiss confirmed that Typhoon has a much lower cockpit workload, and, having actually talked to pilots who have flown both types, I’m quite convinced that Typhoon enjoys a superior MMI. This is particularly true with HEA, as the Typhoon pilot can now have the tactical situation displayed in his sightline, wherever he is looking.

Just as Rafale enjoys some advantages over Typhoon, the reverse is also true, and one of the biggest Typhoon advantages lies in its MMI. Only the “Rafale is best in every way” fanboys bother denying it.

Before you wax lyrical about the Rafale’s helmet, let’s wait until Dassault have actually integrated one and have a full service clearance, shall we?

Incidentally Rafale’s cockpit is not ‘more comfortable’, nor can the claim of ‘better ergonomics’ be substantiated.

Eagle,

Tranches are a matter of funding. There was a major hardware change between Tranche 1 and Tranche 2, but there won’t be between Tranche 2 and Tranche 3.

Blocks are production standards. In the early days they tended to also mark the jump between hardware and software changes, but do not necessarily do so now.

Upgrades are intended to be applied fleet wide (or as close to fleet wide as the different block standards allow). Thus P1E will affect all Typhoons from Tranche 2 and beyond, and some elements will be ‘ported’ to Tranche 1 jets as well.

P1E is of huge scope. In a modern, software driven aeroplane, changing the software can be more significant than adding a major new item of hardware – like the radar.

The lack of quadrinational commitment to a defined upgrade plan beyond P1E is indeed ‘rather strange’, and is hampering the aircraft’s chances on the export market.

Mercifully there are signs that the future capability roadmap may be close to gaining four nation approval, and if it does not, that the UK at least has a ‘plan B’.

I can’t tell you, or Bluewings, what Typhoon will do in July 2015. SRP14 is not yet agreed. Meteor is yet to be funded for production integration (only for development and risk reduction). The exact timescale for AESA is not quite clear. I can guess, but that’s not certainty, is it?

If everything goes right, expect AESA, Meteor, and at least one of the advanced/complex weapons (probably SPEAR/Brimstone if the UK shout loudest or Taurus/Storm Shadow otherwise).

Bluewings,

Your analysis of DASS is deeply flawed.