KovySo, when the French cut numbers in order to improve the quality of each remaining aircraft it is a good move… but when the US does the same thing, it shows that the entire program is in trouble… I see!!!
yes because when the US cut the numbers, the money goes to other programs. In the case of the rafale, the money will stay within the program to develop new systems for the plane.
Anyway you can’t compare a “cut” of 8 rafale (2.7%) with the jsf cut that could be more than 20%. (I won’t even talk about the F-22 that has been cut by more than 50%)
KovyHigh power radar was also usefull for fox 1 missiles.
A SARH missile has a small antenna to catch the waves reflected by the target. So, with a powerfull radar, you can launch fox 1 missiles with a high PK from a “greater distance”
For exemple, at the limit of the aim-7 launch range, The missile has more chances to loose the relative weak signal of the F-16 radar than the strong one of the F-15 radar, during the first seconds of the missile flight.
Today, the power of the radar is less important for fox 1 missiles because they can use a datalink and an inirtial guidance during the first phase of their flight.
KovyDoes it really make sense to push the detection figure that hard?
It makes sense because a lot of raw power allows a powerfull radar to get a decent detection range in bad conditions :
– beaming targets
– escaping targets
– look down range
With modern electronic filters, fast computers and smart software you can get very good performances with less power though.
Today it is also a good thing to detect aircrafts with very small rcs far enough (if you don’t have a good IRST) or to generate multiple beams in the case of an AESA.
A very powerfull radar can also be usefull to elaborate tactics using the datalink : You can lock on a target for a wingman who is closer, radar off and missiles in range.
KovyKovy
There have been plenty of leaks, some of them from Boeing, some from Dassault, some from the various radar/engine/weapon suppliers and the most persuasive from the RSAF itself. None of these sources had anything to gain by intimating that Typhoon was the RSAF’s preferred choice, but all did say exactly that. All were more leaky than the EF GmbH/BAE bid team. It’s simply inaccurate to claim that the revelation that Typhoon was preferred came from Eurofighter or BAE.
Sorry but the only leaks and rumors that have been published in public press were from the eurofighter side.
The reasons for Typhoon’s rejection have also been set out, and are deeply embarrassing and damaging to BAE Systems, but do not reflect badly on the aircraft. The decision to eliminate Typhoon was essentially political.
I don’t think so. The Typhoon has been rejected because it doesn’t fit the RSAF requierement now (like the rafale btw) and will not fit it in the time scale imposed by the RSAF (unlike the rafale). This has nothing to do with politics but actual capababilities of the aircraft at a given time. In orther words, Many future capabilities of the Typhoon will be implemented too late for Singapore, so they decided to drop the plane.
The fact that Rafale remains in contention merely demonstrates that it is politically preferable, not that it is NECESSARILY technically superior – in exactly the same way that the technically superior Rafale lost out to the politically stronger F-15K in Korea, or in the way that the technically superior Gripen lost out to the F-16 in Chile and Poland.
The singapore contest is very diffferent from the korean one. The main difference being the secrecy surounding the evaluations and the fact that the political decision is not written in advance and will be influenced by the technical evaluations.
anyone who believes that air forces get their own way when selecting aircraft, or that the best and most suitable aircraft will win competitive evaluations is naive.
In the Singapore contest, I do think that the eurofighter had about the same political chances as the F-15 and the Rafale
KovySingapore. Typhoon was preferred by the RSAF. As I’ve written. As Doug Barrie, Nick Cook, Rob Hewson, Craig Hoyle, Jon Lake, and virtually every aviation journo who has had any insight into that evaluation wrote. Ah, but then we’re all anti-French, I guess. All amatuers likely to be duped by BAE Systems and EF GmbH.
It is a possibility (that BAE has changed the truth a little bit)
BTW, Singapore had been very clear about the contest : everything, every evaluations, every bids must remain secret until the end : NO LEAK tolerated !
And here comes the eurofighter team, late for its evaluation, with only T1 aircrafts to show and a bag of speculations and leaks about the “preferred” choice of the RSAF in the press. Game over. :rolleyes:
KovyRafale has already engaged 2 targets simultaneously with Mica in a dense ECM environment, as soon as 1997.
Source Dassault : http://www.rafale.com.sg/Files/Aero…afaleGB2002.pdf
Reading this pdf dated february 2002, I’m wondering if the rafale development program in 2002 was not ahead of the typhoon development program in february 2005 :p
KovyRafale may be closer to being on time than Typhoon, but only just, and it’s still late, and Typhoon is catching up (look at the numbers in service today).
Rafale may even be closer to being on budget, though if it is, it’s only just, and it’s massively over-budget.
Rafale may even be closer to being in service as an Omni role fighter. Though it’s still not in proper frontline service (we don’t count the nine F1 jets with the Aéronavale), and SCALP (and no service-cleared PGMs, A-G rockets, dumb bombs) hardly makes the aircraft omni-role.
As far as capabilities are concerned, I think Dassault is, at least, 2-3 years ahead of the eurofighter consortium.
The main gap being the opening of the flight enveloppe with heavy payloads (+ the FCS updates) and A2G weapons separation trials.
It is true that they could catch up rather quickly thanks to their numerous instrumented aircrafts but their progress are still very, very slow : As an exemple, Dassault is flying the rafale with 3 tanks of 2000L, 2 scalps and 2 mica (external payload > 7,5 T) since 1997 !
The other big issue of the eurofighter is the radar. Yes, it is said to be the best mecanical radar in the world, but the near future belongs to AESA radar and despite the amsar program I’m not feeling a strong polical will do develop an operational aesa radar for the typhoon soon (let say during the next five years)
That’s a problem on the export market because F-15, F-35, Su-30, Mig-29 and Rafale, all can be fitted with a P/AESA. IMHO, all the export orders for the Rafale and the Typhoon will take place between 2005 and 2015. After 2015, the F-35 will be economically too strong (unless she is too expensive ?) and it will become more and more difficult to sell Rafale and Eurofighters.
Kovyand is cheaper and more mature than the French Rafale. (thought both are excellant strike fighters) Also, several European Countries share in its production. So, the political brownie points would be worth alot more for the wholly European Typhoon. Than the wholly French Rafale..
Actually it is more expensive and less mature than the rafale.
Several countries share the production, that’s right and imho it more a problem than an advantage (If one country disagree with selling something sensitive to the Saudi, the contract will become a political nightmare). it is not like if they could ask to Spain in the case UK refuses to sell them something.
KovyThe end of the sound track is corrupted (the ejection order has been replaced)
Here is the actual video with the ejection order at the end.
Kovy1x Pilot: 100kg
that’s an american pilot ? 😀
KovyThat of the Rafale is a triplex system with an additional analogue chanel
AFAIK it is 3 digital and 2 backup analog systems (canard are off with the analog systems)
– emergency G-override (?)
Yes. There are mecanical stops on the stick that the pilot can overide to get more G
KovyTo my understanding the Rafale has also sensor fusion (RBE-2, OSF, SPECTRA and MIDS fused together). The system in the Rafale is designated SNA (Systeme du Navigation et d’Attaque).
SNA is a generic french acronyme that means “weapon and navigation system” in english.
for exemple, the SNA of the mirage III didn’t have sensor fusion 🙂
KovyIf a Dassault flight test professional says that Typhoon went out and supercruised in the mid day heat in Singapore, when Rafale waited for the evening cool (and failed, twice) I’d take it more seriously than if some BAE PR hack said it. And I’m more interested in what the SEngO on a squadron says about maintainability and availability than I am in the manufacturer’s breezy assertions.
I’m very very sceptic about this story.
It says nothing about the conditions of the tests.
– What was the loadout (fuel, weapons) of both plane ?
– What was the thrust seting of their engine (peace/war setting ?)
– And very important : What was their altitude
The only parameter given is the hour of the day (mid day vs evening) used to bash the rafale supercruise capability implying that the plane failed despite the better temperature conditions.
But, everybody knows that the troposphere temperature drops very quickly as the altitude increases. At tropical latitudes you loose about 8°C per km. That means that at an altitude of 5 km (15 000 ft), the temperature is 40°C below the ground T° (ie close to 0°C). In these conditions the ground temperature is quite irrelevant unless the supercruise tests were made at low altitude which was probably not the case for obvious reasons.
This is why I think this story is bogus… until someone comes with acurate facts and not tarmacs legends.
Kovywhat I said was that the delivery schedule for this year (2005) stated 15 aircraft.
It has been officialy said by the Dassault CEO during Le Bourget that only 11 rafale would be delivered this year. They are about 6 monthes late but trying to catch up.
KovyEC-135 is the greatest crap of them all. It`s way expensive. With the money for one EC-135 I can buy almost 2 Mi-17s with glass cockpit, meteo radar, and other goodies and really do some work. The 135 looks good on paper…but it`s a dissapointment in reality. The FADEC is a good idea..but needs a lot of improving. Sometimes it injects more fuel in the combustion chambers and we get the afterburner effect, or during flight the screens go off, it`s weather sensitive and it`s LASY. It can barely take off fully loaded and then it`s range is like from my house to the market and back(the market is very close to where I live). I have some good words for it tho`. It is perfect for city ambulance or fast swat insertion…small…quiet.
Indeed, the EC-135/145 familly seems to have some maturity problems and to be not as good as the helicopters it has to replace.
In France they replace the alouette III and the dolphin for SAR missions and AFAIK the pilots are a bit desapointed by the lack of poxer, especialy for mountain rescue missions. One other thing is particularly annoying : the 2 big antennas right in the way of the back door !
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