Aha, ok, sorry US…

Siddar, look at the pictures again, they are surely directed to different markets, the last one showing the large participation of Brazil companies in Gripen construction are, IMO, ment as a “convincing” PR argument to select it instead of Rafale or SH.

Take the canopy for example, it’s still made in US I think but just not mentioned, same for other little bits here and there, they are just not shown. The us total parts procentiges are somewhat lower though.

Whatever… A big chunk, the engine is US, about $20-25 million a piece. To think that Us would start a trade war over fuel tank sealants and some mechanical parts and lose export is stupid…

BTW, Sweden(Saab) export quite a lot of military equipment to US Army and AF so…

The good (Or bad thing, as some want to see it…) is that Saab can source parts from where the customer wants.

Here a more up to date picture…

Here we can can see that Sweden “controls” the radar(Selex antenna among other things.), FCS, Swedish data link, EWS etc.

…however there are at least an important detail that you have been missed so far, the agreement has not been only between Saab and Embraer, but between the Government of Sweden and the Government of Brazil.

Where have I said that it’s only between Saab and Embraer? I haven’t missed anything, I know the Goverments are involved but here we are talking ToT in general terms.

Transfer of technology should not have been confused with manufacturing rights, as to develop and produce such modern fighter, then it has been necessary full knowledge in all aspects of operation and construction of each item, as well as engines and avionics.

I think that it’s you that are confused, Brazil do not get only some “manufacturers right”. They will be able to get Saab’s whole system integration knowledge in fighter jet construction plus ability to upgrade the aircraft to their needs, as they desire.

Yes, Saab don’t have IP right to everything but can still build Gripens, can’t they?
It’s part of their method to buy aircraft parts from the shelf but have control over key systems, radar, EW etc. as been said. Brazil will more or less do the same.

In fact I guess that the same 100% ToT does not apply to weapons of the Gripen NG, even the software of those, since those weapons are not part of the aircraft, but every single part that has been assemblyng in the fighter, it should be part of the 100%.

Unless 100% does not mean anymore 100%.If someone prove it, may be could be nominated to the Nobel Prize in Mathematics.

Brazil will be able to integrate all weapons of choice the same way Saab do it. BTW, the Raven AESA radar is not bought clean “of the shelf”. The backend is AFAIK a collaboration between Selex and Saab where Saab owns the necessary software, I think the antenna is Selex though.

I expect some collaboration going on also on the IRST since Saab developed their own system(IR-Otis) some years ago.

maurobaggio, you keep repeating yourself, do you mean that the Brazil airforce, Goverment, companies etc. don’t know this and expect 100% ToT of every bit?

If so, that sounds a little bit delusional to me…

Regards

Short video from the first Gripen NG test aircraft production line:

https://twitter.com/Saab/status/710494843097714692

edit: Don’t forget to go full screen…

No doubt Rafale is better in certain areas since it’s a bigger aircraft. Rafale can carry more loads for longer distances.

But at “normal” payload, air to air, the range difference is not so big IMHO, both aircrafts have a rather big fuel fraction though (Around 33% on internal fuel). Much more when they use those big externals.

Personally I don’t think the overall performance difference is that big, depends also what you put in the aircraft, GE’s higher thrust F414 is a possibility etc. etc.

Capabilities is not static, over the years much can change dependant on threats(Plus political will and economy of course)…

If this deal goes thru my guess is that a following order will come down the line(Replacing F18).
———————————–
Isn’t this enquiry just a attempt to delaying things, not sure if that suceeds, let’s wait and see.

Cheers

Thanks for the clarifications Spitfire9 and Loke!

So it’s the fuselage and main landing gear doors manufacturing that is “not serious”, not the Akear building wings as Pepe Rezende said? :rolleyes: 🙂

:D:D:D
Quite true :rolleyes:

To believe that Akaer could easily build wings for a hi-tech fighter is not serious, point.

ELarning by doing, very efficient but extremely time consuming.

Who’s saying it’s easy? (And did you read the above info from Spitfire9 and Loke) It’s not about the wing apparently.

What firm will Dassault cooperate with to build Rafale in Brazil, are there a more “serious” one left?

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arthuro, a cold shower is sometimes necessary, I guess, to present/dig up the right information. It must be hot in Brazil… 😀

It’s impossible to get a clear picture of all this. Misinformation, intended or not, is too common. Not a surprise since it’s a lot of pride and money involved.

Back to lurking.

NOAS

They choose two Brazilian companies that have no previous work with high performance combat aircraft as partners. According the press releases, Akaer was supposed to do the Gripen wing project. This is not serious because the only previous Akaer experience with combat planes is the AT-29 Super Tucano, a turboprop attack-trainer aircraft. No one with some experience at military aviation affairs took this seriously. It is obviously a public relations statement to enhance SAAB position at Brazilian press. I know Akaer sent 20 engineers to SAAB to “participate” at Gripen development, but it also sent 20 engineers to Altran in France…

ATMOS, the Selex partner, only did meteorological radars. It was supposed to do, according SAAB’s releases, the air combat mode of the Raven radar. Obviously, it is not possible.

Akaer also recently signed a partnership with Atran. Not a joke I suppose…;)

“The alliance with Akaer strengthen our position in Brazil in the aerospace and defense, complementing the expertise and knowledge of both companies, with initial focus on aero”
said the President of Altran Technologies, Anderson Novaes Mendes Alves.

Seems to me that Akaer have quite ambitious goals in the future planning involvement in KC-390 et all.

According to the executive director of Akaer, César Augusto da Silva, one of the initiatives to be taken after the announcement will be building a factory built aircraft structures – the first in Brazil with capacity to meet the requests of a company’s Embraer’s businesses, which now depends exclusively on foreign suppliers.

The plant will be built, probably in Sao Jose dos Campos (SP) and will house, besides the final assembly of structural subsets, production of other aviation segments as pipes, wiring, and activities such as modernization and maintenance of aircraft. The investment will be approximately $ 50 million. In the short term, the companies also plan to invest U.S. $ 5 million in training,
industrial. training of manpower and industrial infrastructure.

Cooperation between the Akaer Altran and also broadens the holding T-1, created in 2009 by a group of five Brazilian companies led Akaer to be a global supplier of aircraft structures. According to Silva, the Akaer, the new company will initially be linked to holding T-1. The goal is to capture a significant share in the program’s military transport aircraft and KC-390.

T-1 involve the design and production center fuselage, aft fuselage and wings of the Swedish Gripen fighter NG, activities already undertaken by Akaer today.

http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.akaer.com.br%2Fingles%2Fpress%2Fnews-detail.php%3Fid%3DMg%3D%3D&sl=pt&tl=en&hl=&ie=UTF-8

Dear Pepe, care to explain more in depth why just SAAB/Akaer cooperation “is not serious”

My time is also scarce so I might not have time to comment further…

Regards, NOAS