…At the same time, Sweden began to refurbish its C-130B to use them until 2020. Sorry, this can not be serious.
That’s not correct, the C-130 modernization (AMP) program has not started AFAIK. About a year ago Swedish FMV sent out a non binding RFI:
…covering Avionics Modernization with the objective to study alternativs to the ongoing USAF/Boeing Avionics Program.
The FMV links to those PDF’s doesn’t work now so you have to take my word for it.
The reason though is probably this:
The Air Force in its new five-year budget plan proposes canceling a Boeing Co. program to build and install upgraded software in the cockpits of C-130 transports.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aEiJr36oaC7w
Apparently there have been a lot of delays etc. to the the point that FMV has lost interest in that particular program.
Regards, NOS
Gripen NG: 16t MTOW, 25.5m2 wing area –> 625 kg/m2
Gripen C wing area is AFAIK ~30 m2 which give a wing loading of 16500/30=550kg/m2. In fact Gripen Demo also have a little bigger area since each wing are moved out four inches from the fuselage(otherwise the same wing though).
Gripen NG
1,300km radius + 30min CAP with 6 AAMs and 2x 1,700L drop tanks
–> About 3,000km effective range
–> About 2.5kg fuel consumption per km
The fuel consumption (Ferry range: 4000 km (as given by SAAB)) is ~1.75 kg/km according to my calculations. (3400(int)+1360+1360+880/4000 –> 7000/4000=1.75)
My guess is that Gripen NG will place itself between the other Euro canards, range wise, even with a moderate A2G load, despite it’s smaller size. The fuel fraction on internal fuel is about the same(~32%) on all of them. Rafale wins though, with it’s many (big)external tanks. EF have two 1000 l drop tanks(~6600kg tot fuel compared with Gripen NG ~7000 kg tot). even with recessed BVR-missiles and less external load penalty due to size that’s not enough I would think?
All IMHO of course. 🙂
BTW, CFT aren’t used by neither Rafale or EF AFAIK, it’s an option though…
Regards NOAS
Actualy
Raven did some autonomous flying in 2003, in Woomera, that´s Australia.
Cheers 🙂
That’s cheating, everybody knows that gravity is low down under. 🙂
Regards
I think there is some confusion here… RAVEN was “targeted at demonstrating flight control and autonomous system” that doesn’t mean that the first flight in 2003 was autonomous.
Which is confirmed by this:
The HERTI-1A vehicle G-8-008 achieved the first fully autonomous mission of an unmanned aircraft in UK airspace on 18 August 2005.
http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/tanaris/
Which is about a year after SAAB SHARC, not that it really matters other than some national pride I guess. 😉
Regards NOAS
I am all for the Gripen, so that argument isnt well founded.
Your article only quote what someone “think” is the noisiest, based on number and size of the engines.My input however is based on stories in all major newspapers and TV.
Personally i have seen F16 and Gripen take off within 30 secconds from 200 yards, so i know there is a huge difference.
Nevr heard the Typhoon or Fat Noddy tough.
Sorry if my answer sounded a little aggressive and categorical, my bad.
I got the impression that Ny Teknik got a “source” to tell them about that study and not only what they “think”, but I could be wrong.
Anyhow, no doubt that gripen is louder than F-16, if the example above is right (5dB more), Gripen is nearly four times louder than F-16 (3 dB is double power soundwise if I remember right)
My point was that I think dual engines (EF, Rafale Super Hornet) or a single one with over 40 000 lb of thrust must be louder.
Regards
The Gripen visited my hometown a few years ago, and i can assure you, its loud as *¤#*
Infact, a recent study says that a investment of more than 1 bilion dollars in base modifications due to noise, if Norway select the Gripen.
A study by Norwegian “Försvarsbygg” shows that the new fighterjets soundlevel is significantly higher than F-16 and that it will cost 1.16 billion $ to “fix”.
I guess you don´t belong to the SAAB camp since you forgot to tell that that billion is for the noisiest alternative (JSF or EF).:D
Gripen is less noisy than the other candidates (If “Ny Teknik” is right) and “soundproofing” should probably be cheaper.
“Ny Teknik”, a Swedish technology site has learned that Gripen E/F with F414 is the C alternative below.
A plane: 15 dB
B plane 9 dB
C plane 5dB
http://www.nyteknik.se/nyheter/fordon_motor/flygplan/article61404.ece (In Swedish)
Regards
The wings will on the other hand have to be redesigned to accomodate the new landing gear. But that would have to be done anyway to be able to handle the increased MTOW.
I don’t think the inner wing structure will change much:
The new main landing gear is attached to a machined steel attachment frame placed on the outside of the wing box
with bolts running through the lower wing skin to a new inner support structure. The exterior attachment frame is
designed to include all mounting points for the main gear strut, folding stay, and retract actuator.

The increased take off weight seems to only need bigger brakes:
The aircraft has a greater MTOW which means that a bigger main wheel and tire are needed to be able to house a
larger, more capable brake.
(AIAA: “Conceptual Design of a New Generation JAS 39 Gripen
Aircraft”)
That concept studie is some years old so it may not be 100% right but on the other hand if the aircraft are going to fly next year there are no time for monumental changes. That’s my two cents anyway.:)
Regards
Swerwe, here’s a sum up:
*Demonstrator aimed mostly at this time towards norwegian and danish fighter competition.
*Formal announcement in 2-3 months.
*Engine is GE F414.
*~40% more fuel.
*Claimed range: Five hour unrefuelled maritime reconnaissance mission or 90-minute CAP to Scotland from norwegian bases.
Almost forgot…found this at militaryphotos.net forum:
http://www.mil.no/multimedia/archive/00089/3_Gripen_Capability_89303a.pdf
Regards, NOAS
I just checked… F414 has upgrade path to ~29000lb so it seems possible but if it will happen, time will tell as always I guess. 😀
Not an answer to the question but Flight International had a part about Volvo Aero (and RM12) some days ago:
Under its existing development plans, Volvo intends to demonstrate upgrades to the RM12 in the 2010-12 timeframe that will increase thrust-to-weight (T/W) ratio by up to 15%, reduce costs by about 10% and include a lower-observable, lower-noise exhaust. The RM12++ version would be aimed at the proposed JAS39E/F, and involve a new fan, modified LPT and control system changes. Compared with re-engining options such as the Eurojet EJ200, GE F414 and Snecma M88-2, the RM12++ would have “harder risk, but lower cost”, says Nilsson. Further off, beyond 2012-13, studies are under way to advance T/W ratio to 10:1 in dry thrust and 15:1 with afterburner. Vectored thrust is also under consideration for the follow-on phase.
http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles/2006/12/12/211079/nordic-special-quiet-partner.html
Seems that RM12 is the preferred option unless a customer demands something else for whatever reason. The thrust numbers at the end is also perhaps a little to good to be realistic? 🙂
Norway continues the JSF partnership. The MOD will sign the contract…
…when the industrial cooperation deal for JSF is agreed on. Wich is not yet the case.
http://www.odin.dep.no/fd/norsk/aktuelt/pressesenter/pressem/010051-070116/dok-bn.html(In norwegian)
It seems that some newspapers has rushed to conclusions…
Regards NOS
Seems to have slipped a bit. I remember when they were talking about AESA being operational before 2010. Interesting that they haven’t decided who to get their T/R modules from. It seems to have been taken for granted up to now that getting them from Raytheon for their test antenna meant they were comitted to Raytheon as the supplier.
I don´t know about the original timetable/plans, but if it has been delayed maybe this is the reason?
Ericsson* also has an initiative underway with Selex
to develop a new European source of T/R modules.
(*now SAAB Microwave)
http://www.gripen.com/en/MediaRelations/Publications/GripenNews/GripenNewsArchive.htm
(Gripennews 2006_2 page 3)
NOAS
Moved this answer from thread “Rafale out of Norway contest” since I thought it would feel more at home under this threadtitle.
Well, I read a little bit more about this whole Gripen N project. And the more I read, the more I like it.
A pair of NSM’s weights roughly 840kg. Even with a heay rack, it remains in a safe region.Except the engine question, I’m nearly convinced this could work well. Now that I like it, I ask myself if this demonstrator I often read about is the same thing as Gripen N ? I mean there are some other things I remember. (NORA, IR-OTIS …)
So.. is it financed ? And is it more then a testbed for improved avionics ?
I´m glad you´re beginning to like it… to bad you are not sitting in the Norwegian goverment. 🙂
I don´t know if Gripen-N is the same as the demonstrator but it would make sense if it is IMHO; using it as a marketing tool/testbed (for all kinds of future development including NEURON input etc.) before and after Norway procurementdecision in 2008. If the timetable allows that is another question.
Neither do I know if it´s financed. IG JAS got an ~(SEK)1 billionorder from FMV(the Defence Matériel Administration) for the next developmentstep (up to 2009) not long ago, but I´m not shure that included any demonstrator (correct me if I´m wrong). It would most likely include some form of NORA radar(see thumbnail), rumour say that South Africa will have IR-OTIS (IRST) but public info have been sparse.
My guess is that final decision on the matter is postponed until after 17 sept. elections. (touch wood) :p
NOAS
Moved my post/answer to Aurel to JAS 39 Gripen-N thread.
first: you have to stengthen the wing/wingbox to withstand that additional stress.
Not shure if that would be needed, the innerpylons are designed to withstand forces of ~4-5G+ with full load. The new maingear should not stress it to much since the moment of force from it (distance from wingattachmentpoints) is fairly short. Landing stress would be bigger but could, I guess, be within stresstolerances or (only) require stronger wingattachment.

second: you have to alter your aiframe. Somewhat different forces and momentums (for which the airframe wasn’t optimized) have to be considered.
Yes, two new ventralpylons would need airframestrenghtening but they are close to CG. Not shure if that would require the hole fuselage to be redesigned as you mention below.
Add to this the now heavier stores on your wing, and you need a redesigned (or completely new) internal wingstructure/center fuselage structure.
The new heavier stores are on the fuselage AFAICS and not on the wing (apart from the added maingear). Gripen can already carry Taurus (1300kg/4G) on it´s inner wingpylons can´t think of anything heavier needed .
SAAB summarise:
Technical benefits of the concept proposal
The gain from using the proposed modification concept for the Gripen a/c described in this paper is twofold:
· It enables fuel to be housed in the previous main gear bays.
· It frees ventral space for extended external weapon/fuel carriage and increases overall carriage flexibility.
Other advantages when assessed against the other modification proposals described in this paper are as follows:
· Increased MTOW
· Very limited impact on airframe.
· Minimal drag in comparison with conventional conformal fuel tanks
· No shift in CG when more internal fuel is added
· Very low shift in CG when new ventral stores are added
· Great overall aircraft development potential
As said before this is only a concept and further studies/tests may complicate things (both tech and costwise) , who knows.
Regarding the engine ,I agree but think the F414 is the frontrunner (even if a EJ would be a preferable alternative) if a new engine is on the table. Remember SAAB has a broad cooperation with GE.
Others have already answered the cheap or not issue better than I can so I skip that. 😉
Of coarse even if these changes could be implemented fairly easy, as SAAB seem to think, (a lot of?)testing would be required. Should be interresting to see if the mentioned “Gripen Demonstrator” have any of these modifications?
NOAS