MountainI don’t care much for your opinion- the IAF and IN have listed these on their procurement lists. It’s a matter of the funds being provided and they will be procured. There won’t be any new competition for these since no bribery allegations were raised so no reason for the new govt. to scuttle them.
As for embarassment, who is embarassed by what? Bribery and corruption don’t exist in Pakistan, is it?
Only a matter of time before you bring other countries in to it I guess, it seems to be your MO on here.
You are right, it is a matter of funds being provided, lets see where we are with that shall we?
MountainHAL has never been asked to make MFDs or tyres for the Su-30. They’re manufactured by Samtel and MRF respectively. The IAF flies hundreds of Su-30s and Hawks built by HAL including the engines. But suddenly F414s delivered by HAL will stop the Tejas or Gripen from being airworthy?
Sanctions affect the delivery of spares and other consumables. The majority of which are manufactured in-house by SAAB. So no, sanctions wouldn’t affect the Gripen massively unless Sweden also applied corresponding sanctions.
The Su-30 contract required Russia to set to serving support infrastructure in India. Unless sanctions are applied before Boeing can follow through on their contracts, its not the same case.
Sigh.
Take a look at the attached picture and then try and conviince yourself everything will be alright as an organisation as incompetent as HAL will replace/manufacturer everything.
MountainExcept that the topic was the impact of sanctions on the Tejas and Gripen NOT the Indian military as a whole (Post #759; medo).
Predict doom if you like. Fact remains, sanctions or not, the F414 will be manufactured and supported by HAL.
No ones predicting doom, but when their past stories are anything to go by (unable to make display screens or tyres for SU-30s etc) and the fact that the chief of the IAF has pointed out how fed up he is of HAL, your optimism about HAL being able to produce everything is misplaced at best…..
Sanctions would massively effect Gripen. Massively.
If HAL has major issues keeping SU-30s fully serviced without Russian support, despite manufacturing them, what makes you think things would be different with the more complex Gripen E!?
MountainReally? Defending JSR of all people? I call him a troll, because he is a troll. And I make a point of it because he apparently has bestowed upon me a place on his ‘people-to-be-trolled’ list.
US becomes India’s biggest arms supplier
February 2014
For over four decades, Russia has been India’s largest arms supplier by a comfortable margin. Last year, the US overtook Russia to grab that spot.
According to the defence and security analysis group, IHS Jane’s, India has also supplanted Saudi Arabia as the world’s biggest buyer of American weaponry. In 2013, India imported $1.9 billion worth of US equipment, including the C-17 Globemaster III and the P-8I multi-mission aircraft.
Defence equipment imports from the US have shot up from just $237 million in 2009, to eight times that figure last year. And, with several high-value US contracts in the procurement pipeline – including a $600-700 million purchase of 145 M777 guns; additional C-130J Super Hercules and C-17 Globemaster III aircraft; and a possible billion-dollar buy of 8,400 Javelin anti-tank missiles – this is poised to rise even higher.
According to Indian analysts, the defence ministry in New Delhi is increasingly comfortable buying weaponry directly from the US department of defence (the Pentagon), partly because of the perception that this provides no space for corruption and arms agents. An increasing number of US contracts, such as those for C-17 aircraft and the M777 gun, are being routed through America’s foreign military sales programme, in which the Pentagon negotiates the rates and supply schedule with the vendor, on behalf of the buyer.
I really dont care about the love in between you and JSR, my point was his opriginal statement was very valid.
MountainThe only US component on the Tejas is the F414 which does not require replacement. And since its manufactured in-house by HAL, the supply of spares and consumables won’t be a significant issue either.
The sanctions affected the FCS development but since the sanctions barely lasted 3 years, it can hardly have been ‘massively delayed’. Not to mention it was already on-track as far as the FCS was concerned before sanctions were formally lifted (the first LCA flight took place in Jan 01).
3 years is pretty significant, may explain why the plane is still not in service yet, but lets not get away from the main point. Sanctions will seriously effect India if a country chooses to sanction its weapons spares.
Please let us not start on HAL in house manufacturing of spares to keep stuff airworthy. That is a whole line of comedy I simply do not have all day to post the hundreds of links on…….
MountainThere are a few big ticket items that are pending with the US as yet..the Chinook, Apache and follow-on P-8I deals and possibly additional C-17s. All told will go into several billions of $. The first three at least are for sure, its just a matter of getting the funding for these. So the US is of late the largest supplier.
No, they are certainly not “for sure”. One thing I am amazed at is despite all the ongoing delays, negotiations, bribes, lack of funds and set backs, people still assume things will go smoothly. Until they have signed on the dotted line, nothing is “for sure”. We had the same people saying the Rafale deal was “for sure” for the last 2 years. So lets not embaress ourselves even further.
Does not get away from the fact that for a full 4 years, again 4 years we can certainly be “for sure” as they have passed, Russia was by far the largest supplier.
MountainPic of INS Kolkata and INS Teg and some subs.
You think they would have learned from the past about keeping those subs so close together……..
MountainAs of 2014, its India’s largest defence supplier regardless of your whining and trolling.
Firstly 2014 is not over yet, secondly from 2009-2013 (years for which we have complete information for) Russia provided 75% if India’s arms imports.
So he does have a very valid point, but all you do in response to someone who disagrees with you is to accuse them of trolling, despite them being right.
MountainWhat if India purchased two GE engines per Tejas fighter? The price would go up per bird by a couple of million perhaps. But this should not be such an issue considering the TEjas is pretty cheap to begin with, also provides safeguard against sanctions. Just a crazy thought..
Good point, but often the US deliberately stops to many spare parts/engine sales just so they can maintain leverage.
MountainReduced serviceability isn’t the same as being ‘grounded’. In the Tejas/Gripen’s case only the engine is American (with a lifetime equaling that of the airframe) and its being license built by HAL.
The Tejas wasn’t even in prototype form in 1998. It was delayed somewhat yes, but hardly crippled.
As I said, the PAF had plenty of friends with F-16 spare parts. India may not be in the same position, and with even more advanced kit it would be even more vulnerable.
Tejas was massively delayed due to US sanctions and then got back on track after they were lifted. Does that in itself not point out the obvious here?
MountainTen years of sanctions didn’t ground the PAF’s F-16s. They’ll hardly ground the Gripen or Tejas, not that sanctions are likely.
Er….
Wrong on both counts.
PAF F-16 servicability was around 50% during the 90s (sanction era) and that was only because very friendly F-16 users (Turkey, Egypt, Bahrain ) helped them out.
So good luck with that.
Also, US sanctions have already grounded the Tejas in the past after Indian exploded a nuke.
“”For instance, the hydraulic actuators were meant to navigate the aircraft, gain altitude and determine the trajectory of the LCA. So when we were denied these critical components, the LCA project suffered much,” a senior DRDO scientist said.”
MountainDetails of China’s Type 039B submarine, which is reportedly to be sold to Pakistan this year
The details of China’s Type 039B submarine, which is reportedly to be sold to Pakistan this year, have been revealed by the Canada-based Kanwa Information Center, reports Huanqiu, the website of China’s nationalistic tabloid Global Times.
The Pakistani Navy has reportedly required that China install air-independent propulsion systems on the submarines it has chosen for the transfer of these related technologies in order to assemble the submarines in Karachi, the largest city in Pakistan.
China has called for tenders for its type S20P submarine, which is another version of the type 0369B submarine that the country builds to export. Pakistan hopes to obtain six type S20P submarines to obtain stronger underwater combat capabilities along with its three existing Agosta-class 90B submarines. Currently, China’s PLA Navy has nine type 0369B submarines in service.
The type 0369B submarine is reportedly 66m long and 8.2m high, can dive as deep as 300 meters and has 1,850 tons of displacement above water and 2,200 tons underwater. Its maximum speed reaches 18 knots and it can propel up to 8,000 nautical miles at 16 knots. The double-hull submarine is highly automated and only requires 38 crew members.
The submarine is also equipped with an advanced seven-blade curved propeller and an X-shaped rudder. It carries Yingji 83 anti-ship missiles that have an attack range of 180 kilometers. The sonar and radar installed on the submarine are also state-of-the-art but their details have not been revealed.
Kanwa’s report said the Pakistani Navy may ask China to integrate its cruise missile Babur, which can be launched underwater and has an attack range of 500 kilometers. The report also said the 039B submarines have been produced in Shanghai and Wuhan. The first of them is likely to be shipped to Pakistan while the remaining of them are to be assembled in the country.
http://www.wantchinatimes.com/news-subclass-cnt.aspx?id=20140602000003&cid=1101&MainCatID=11
MountainThere is a severe financial crunch. The new govt. will need time to recover from previous follies.
I say stop all non-essential purchases and de-fund every foreign venture, except the PAK-FA and perhaps more MKI’s. Obviously there are more important things to fund domestically. I hope the new govt. takes it time and prioritizes around local manufacture for defense equipment.
The Rafale is non-essential, as are more C130’s! They should both be de-funded. I have a strong suspicion this may just happen. A new govt. means new policies, it’s just tough luck for these suppliers I suppose.
I would have thought more C-130s would be important. Only 5 left, not much availability after you take into account training and maintenence needs.
MountainWhile it isn’t a big country, you still need enough speed to run down modern airliners. Hawk is barely able to reach those speeds let alone run one down from behind.
A Hawk can keep up with an A330. You may need to check Wiki, but I can do the math myself.
MountainThe “you just need a jet trainer to do air policing” theory just appeared, again.
In this situation the “Hawk” is almost useless for QRA, look at a map of Switzerland, look at the speed and height that the typical Airbus/Boeing flies. Any Trainer coming out off Emmen trying to intercept a typical passenger aircraft that crosses the German border going in the general direction of Zurich, will be lucky to actually see the dam thing near the Italian border after it has overflown the entire Switzerland airspace, the distances are short, the speed of the trainer is near identical to the civilian aircrafts and it has 10000 meters to climb. Now throw in winter, clouds, rain, night, whatever, good luck in that radarless, linkless trainer to actually be able to spot the Airbus. “Say again air controler, to my left? But thats the Matterhorn”.
QRA, in a small airspace, brimming with civilian flights (thats right in the midle of Western Europe), high mountains all over the place, thats supersonic job and with fine sensors to boot.
Ah, before I drink the Mil/indust complex kool aid, I would say there would be much more liason between all the countries that surround Switzerland, my point about them being surrounded by friendly countries was that they will get plenty of warning once an intruder enters their air space, a Hawk can easily keep up with an airliner.
It’s nice to argue for more spend and better planes when it’s not your money I guess…..
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