I see Beedall has just published his review of the RN for 2006, it makes very grim reading indeed and he is also now hinting at possible cancellation of CVF and the sale of some of the T45’s. I would suggest any Brits have a couple of very stiff drinks before reading it………… you will need them 😡 🙁

http://navy-matters.beedall.com/index.html

You’re right, I need drinks. 😡

Why, why why, why, why!!!! How stupid can one bunch of politicians be?
Perhaps the question is “How stupid can a countries electorate be?”:mad:

alternative force make-up

I’d have to go with the idea that its better to have an overspeced ship than an underspeced one. However, I think the RN could benefit from an OPV/corvette type vessel as a “low-intensity” combat vessel.

This could operate as guard ship (e.g. Falkland islands), support operations in “friendly waters” (e.g. Iraq?, Lebanon?), resources patrol (both local and friendly waters) and anti-smuggling. It would expect to have close logistical support and air cover and therefore have limited air/missile defence and endurance, but be capable of facing surface threats and supporting small combat teams (boarding parties, shore raiders). Possibly operating a multirole helo to give some ASW (and maybe AShW?) capability as well as support for the combat teams. If things get nasty, it has some capability to extract itself, and maybe has a supporting role in war-environment.

The other roles discussed – humanitarian support – are surely best served with a modified stores/LP-type vessel. Whether the same base hull could be utilised as a high endurance platform replacing comabt capability with stores/fuel/bunking is another matter. Would it need to be significantly different to current military vessels – perhaps more smaller units.

Just some ramblings…..
:confused:

The main advantage for the US would of course be a counter to North Korea and China with an increased trade of American Products. (i.e. Military Hardware Mainly)

Given the recent “debates” re: F35, why would a country evidently trying to develop some sort of independance on foriegn equipment want to tie themselves to the US?

Yes, but 1) we’ve got our fighter as well, & it’s cost us less so far & 2) if there was another one or two rival Eurofighters, someone would lose out. It’s a bit of a zero-sum game, I’m afraid.

I’m not sure we would have ended up with anymore than the two (Rafale and EF) – I don’t see that Italy, Germany and Spain would have continued with a shared programme to the end – which is not to question the know-how of those nations, but given Germany’s cold-feet at times, I cannot see it would have survived. Potentially more customers for an OTS solution.

just my 2 pennies of course.

Phil

Doesn’t add up. Each country has funded development in proportion to its contribution. Money going out to fund development in other countries has been balanced by money coming in from them.

You still haven’t addressed the issue of how it’s cheaper to spend several billion quid on your own, instead of somewhere between 14% & 37% of a bit more (but a lot less than twice as much).

It would have been taking the same gamble that the French did – relying on export orders. In hindsight it hasn’t worked (yet), but at least they got their fighter and who knows?

I have nothing against the Rafale and personally think its an excellent Naval Fighter. Yet, I don’t believe the UK would buy it under any condition……just like France wouldn’t buy F-35B’s to operate from LHD’s. As for a Navalized Typhoon the cost would be astronomical to convert it to fly off Aircraft Carriers at this late stage in development. Regardless, the UK is going to get the F-35 Lightning so the point is moot……..

If the UK decided it wasn’t getting what it signed up for from the F35B and actually had the balls to cancel, then buying French would be an insignificant political issue in comparison.

It ain’t moot, as I don’t believe the tech transfer wrangles have gone for good. The US is obviously (rightly or wrongly) unhappy about some aspect of this process, and I don’t see them laying off trying to cut it back as much as they can.

Really, what needs to happen is for the UK to go with a CTOL model like the French! Further, the French need to compromise more and have there version (CVF-FR) be nearly identical to the Royal Navy’s……………..IMO:rolleyes:

FLY NAVY:cool:

I originally put a comment about CTOL in my message, but removed it as too much wishful thinking:(

I don’t believe conversion will ever occur once (if) building begins. A remote chance should F-35B go splat, but more likely that will result in the death of the UK CV programme completely.