Magician>>Pakistan and China are working well together. K8 and JF17 are an example. The El Khalid was also a joint production.
Are you trying to insult the Chinese. Just what effort did you put in.
>> Lol………the day the PAF has BVR I’ll move to Pakistan and enlist. And 120 km? Lol Lol and Lol again.
Arghh………you evil indoos just don’t understand. We have had BVR missiles since Indipendence, you want yo know how, then just read whats below-
1 Pakistani = 10 evil Indoos, therefore
1 Pakistani missile = 10 evil Indoo missiles
1 Pakistani missile range 10 times more than any indoo missile
So logically speaking any SRM(10-12 km) provided to PAF becomes a BVR.
Magician>>The French are known for their double dealing. The advantage for them is higher price and more offset. The French are the last party that can provide total systems cause most companies in Europe are either connected to US or UK. That means that they are a politcial instrument. The french are only intrested in cash. At time that Pakistan was boycotted only the mirages flew… The thing that PAF remembered was that even the plastic fuel tanks were more expensive then their price in goldweight. That is one of the problems why PAF is not desperate to go for Mirage 2000-5. India is more open to that. Whe else would they fly so many nice planes? Good for India and us plane enthousiats.
When will you understand that beggars can’t be choosers, asking for high tech fighters has become a full time job for Mushy,Jamali.
Whichever country they go to they beg for maintaining conventional balance with India. The whole of PAF would be ready to give a bj to Chirac the day he allows the sale of M2K5 to Pakistan.
>>But do end making India better in everything and Pakistan bad in everything. The truth is allways in between. Both nations are not far from eachother. India has more cash and ends up with luxarious weapons while the Pakistani has to wait for better times. Since better weapons get more expensive it means that they just think a bit more before ending up with high tech planes that have no spare parts. And the Pakistani have awful lot to improve. They just started with the Navy getting better subs. Then they will get ships. They are developing tanks now and hopeful will have a new plane. If not then they just have to do it with the fc1 or j10 which are not that bad either.
Again with this equal-equal crap. A country on brink of an economic collapse kept afloat on US AID,rescheduling of loans for which you have become their B**** in south asia.
You have been thinking since the 1990s and it is nearly 2004 now how much more time do you need? Tell me will you not accept a F-16 if it was offered to you now, so much for the spare parts argument. The sub contract was signed in ther early 90s, no new contract has been signed since then, on the other hand India has been expanding its navy at a fast pace for eg. P-15,P-15A,P-16,P-17,Kilo upgrades,Krivaks,Gorshkov,Scorpenes, ADS,Klub,Uran,Bhramos etc
Magician>>Both nations have reached medium quality production and will enter the higher end products in next decade or so.
Please stop with this equl-equal crap again, you have no industries, US used you as their H***,and like a Co****
you were always in the frontline of the action!!
and yeah this stuff you wrote is all about aviation
Magician>>Check http://www.Pakdef.info . you will see WS-1B (180KM RANGE)
What more can I say.
>>It is recent addition. Also i forgot to mention P-3C ORION, LYNX helicopters, Atlanique surveliance ,APC TALHA,.
Don’t worry I mentioned them. BTW you have just 2 P-3c,Atlanique now one was shot down by an mig-21(atlanique)
and the other you managed to crash(P-3C).India is also negotiating with the US for 8 P-3C’s with an option to buy 12 more at a future date.
>> Our F-7 and Mirages are western upgrades not some Russian junk.
Shows how much knowledge you have on the subject.
>>you think C-8XX and HY series missles are junk. one of their old versions have scored a hit in recent gulf war. They have longer ranges and bigger warheads than Harpoon and Exocet.
You talk like that Pakistani scientist who said that their missiles were better and more accurate because they were fatter unlike the pencil shaped indian missiles.
😀
>>New improvement in Crotales are not outdated and remember our indegenous MANPADS can hit an India aircraft not to mention Matra Mistral, Swedish RBS-70 and Orilkon guns which are now produced under licence.
and againt compare this to what india has, The GOI did not tell the PAF to stay out of the Kargil conflict.
Magician>>Show me SIGN deals not Intents.
Village idiot all those are signed deals and the delivery of the equipment has taken place in most of the cases eg MKIs,T-90,krivak frigates,.Krasnopol-M 155 mm laser-guided artillery ,insas,Arjuns,S-300,IAI Malat built Searcher Mk II/Heron Aerial Vehicles,Tunguska M-1 mobile gun,Barak,R-77,wlrs,jaguar&harrier,upg upgrades,air refullers,smerch…etc, atleast do some research before posting.
If you want to see signed deals you should contact MOD not me,maybe they will help you out.
>>M-9, M-11, M-15 Billistic missles and their Indegenous modifications, T-80UD, AL-KHALID TANK, ZARAR upgrade, AGUSTA 90B, APC SAAD, C-8XX missles,F-7PG, WS-1B MLRS, MISTRAL, CROTALE Upgrade and rebuilding, upgrades like ROSE upgrade to MIRAGE and MP to F-7 i cannot remember each and every thing.
If you want to talk about missiles then we have Prithvi 1,2,3 Agni-1,2,3 S-300, Kornet-E,Barak,Tunguska,Dhanush,
Sa-2,3,6….,club,uran,Bhramos,pechora(upgraded),styx,Milan-II, 9K11 Malyutka 9K11 Fagot, 9K113 Konkurs,Akash and Nag will enter user trials early nexy year etc…… For tanks we are inducting the Arjun,T-90s, and upgrading the T-72s(ajeya,Karan).
How many SAD have you produced? You buy the PGs and we get the MKI’s see the difference village idiot. The Zarar upgrade is nothing compared to what we carrying out on the T-72s.
You don’t have any ws-1bs,the UPG upgrade on the bison can take care of your rose upgraded Mirages(Still don’t have any BVR capability). No upgrades have been carried out on the F-7s.Crotales are outdated.
The good stuff you have as of now is the Augosta 90b,SM-39 Exocet,P3c-orions and Harpoons the rest of your navy is JUNK. The Kilos, Il-38s,TU-142s have been upgraded and Krivaks have been bought to take care of this threat and as soon as the Akulas,Scorpenes,ATV enter service you can kiss bye bye to you navy.
MagicianHmm you forget about the mki’s,T-90s,phalcon awacs,krivak frigates,wlrs,jaguar&harrier,upg upgrades,air refullers,smerch,kamov ka31 helicopters,club,uran,BHRAMOS,Air Defence Ship,ALH,Krasnopol-M 155 mm laser-guided artillery ,insas,Arjuns,S-300,IAI Malat built Searcher Mk II/Heron Aerial Vehicles,Tunguska M-1 mobile gun,Barak,HJT-36,R-77……..
then compare this with what Pakistan has purchased, and village idiot just wait till next month Gorshkov deal will be completed then. Gorshy is part of a package deal which consists of the AC,
2 squadron worth Mig-29SMTK,Akula-2 subs, Tu-22M3. Scorpene deal is also likely to be signed by next month.
You see testing of equipment takes time, it has to conducted in all weather conditions and at different terrains,also mod does some hard bargaing before signing any deal.
http://www.telegraphindia.com/1031208/asp/nation/story_2651962.asp
The Indian Navy is evaluating three air defence (missile) systems for the Russian aircraft carrier Admiral Gorshkov, talks for which are on track despite differences with the Russians, defence ministry officials insist.
The navy is evaluating a Russian (Kashtan), a French (Aster) and an Israeli (Barak) missile system. These are intended to reduce the chances of the ship being hit by aircraft on suicide missions. The Russians are pressing for the Kashtan system. The missile system is part of the air defence umbrella, the largest component of which would be ship-based aircraft that would be capable of giving a 200-mile cover.
The Russians were understood to have questioned the choice of third-party missile launchers and their compatibility with the Gorshkov’s own systems.[B]Defence ministry sources say the issue of a missile defence system would not hold up an agreement on the Gorshkov . They said efforts were being made to iron out differences ahead of the Russian defence minister’s visit to Delhi likely by the end of the month.
http://www.financialexpress.com/fe_full_story.php?content_id=47958
Deal For Scorpene Submarines Likely To Be Inked Soon
Under the contract, India will build these submarines at the Mazgaon docks in Goa. Mr Girard said France is keen for “long-term cooperation, joint production and research for building futuristic armament systems with India.” This had received a fillip after the visit of the French prime minister Jean-Pierre Raffarin earlier this year.
According to naval analyst Cmde Ranjit Rai, ‘‘the Franco-Spanish Scorpene submarines under Project 75 are more advanced than the HDW boats as they will be fitted with module energiesous-marin autonome system to enable underwater operation for days without surfacing.”
After this deal is signed, the French company has offered ten more diesel submarines to the Navy by 2010, upgraded by HDW for greater endurance. According to highly placed sources, ‘Scorpenes’ alone cannot meet the country’s strategic requirements without a three-fold increase in endurance time to at least 200 hrs.
It needs modifications for nuclear capability, which France and Germany are jointly willing to undertake, sources add.
One of the reasons why the deal had been delayed
Magician>>You must be double minded… One time my mind is sick and the other time I am an angel.
hmm… it seems sarcasm is a concept alien to you,BTW I called you brain dead.
>> don’t go for copying bad stories from questionable leading newspapers
So Dawn according to you is a “QUESTIONABLE” leading newspaper, you disillusioned kid it is Pakistan’s most widely circulated English language newspaper.
And we all know which forum you come from.
Sarbin said-
Anyways, been reading on some random forums that Pakistan is looking to buy some more advanced western styled weapons, any US, Russian, Swedish weapons are out of question but it seems Pakistan might be chasing the Rafale. Pakistan has saved some money in the last 10 years and might be able to purchase at least 30-40 Rafales, other than 150 FC-1s. Any news on this
The random forums must have been pakdef,pakistanidefence.
Sarbin, austria was offered 18 Rafales for 1.7 bn dollars, which means that the 30-40 will cost somewhere between 4-5bn dollars. Now do you seriously think Pakistan has this kind of money to spend on a fighter, your defence budget is approx 3bn annually.
Your forex may be 12bn dollars but this does not mean the whole 12bn is in liquid form, a country like pakistan needs this 12bn dollars as cushion against any future economic instability,promote economic development which it direly needs.
India’s forex is nearly 98bn dollars but even for us buying a plane at approx 85 million a piece is difficult if not impossible, our frontline fighter the MKI costed us around 35million a pop.
What the PAF can afford is the M2K-5, but I seriously doubt France will supply Pakistan with such weapons. Firstly India is negotiating for 126 of these planes, also a deal for scorpene subs worth 2bn dollars is in the pipeline and may be signed in January next year.India will no way sign these deals if France would supply the same equipment to its adversary.
You will hear many saying that with France money talks, but this was the talk of the 90’s,the Indian economy,influence has grown many times since then, it can outspend pakistan many times over.Just compare the defence budgets of the two countries and you will get an idea, also the trade and international influence which India exerts on other countries will become the deciding factor when it comes to arms sales to Pakistan.
France needs countries like India if it wants to fulfill its desire of forming a multi polar world. So do you really think it would want to alienate India by selling advanced weaponry to Pakistan. To put this in a proper perspective France stopped the supply of Upgraded Mirages during the Kargil conflict.
The Pakistani press continuously reports of negotiations taking place for purchase of advanced fighters for the PAF, but as you and I both know nothing comes out of it and this has been happening since the 90’s. The purchase of Grippen,Eurofighter, F-16s,M2K-5, Rafale etc by the PAF looks more and more dim as time goes on.
The only hope I see for the PAF is that they can induct the FC-1 in good numbers by 2015, and maybe just maybe get hold of some old F-16 frames. But by then the Paf will be facing a formidable opponent in the IAF. The FC-1s will be pitted against the MKI’s,Mig29k-SMT,M2K5,LCAs. I haven’t even included Pak-FA type in my list which you can rest assured will be inducted into the IAF by 2015. To know more about this growing imbalance
refer to the recent JDW article which has been posted in the IAF thread.
Magician😀
Yes PLA you are an angel.
BTW this artice was written by a Pakistani and published in a leading Pakistani newspaper.
The PAF Kickbacks Scandal Revealed by Mistake
http://www.satribune.com/archives/dec16_22_02/P1_PAFStory.htm
The First Hand List of Army Land Grabbers
BAHAWALPUR, Pakistan: Pakistani Army Generals, including President Pervez Musharraf and his top colleagues, have found an innovative way to defend the land of their country — by grabbing it.
http://www.satribune.com/archives/Aug17_23_02/P1_landgrabbing.htm
Magician😀
A must read for every Pakistani and PLA.
Monkey swings or considered policy?
http://www.dawn.com/weekly/ayaz/ayaz.htm
Magicianhttp://hindustantimes.com/news/181_495500,0008.htm
IAF rebuts media reports, says satisfied with SU 30 MKIs
For the second time this year as performance of India’s latest frontline fighters Su 30 MKI came under cloud, the IAF on Sunday expressed satisfaction with the progress of the project and performance of the aircraft.
Strongly rebutting media reports that IAF was having problems with the SU 30 variants and deliveries were being withheld, an IAF spokesman described the reports as “untrue and misleading”.
“IAF has taken delivery of fresh batch of the upgraded SU 30 MKI, which are being assembled and tested,” the spokesman said adding “IAF is quite satisfied with the progress of the project and performance of the aircraft”.
Till date, IAF has an operational fleet of 28 aircraft of both Sukhoi variants, the upgraded SU 30 MKI and SU 30. The Indo-Russian deal envisages outright purchase of 120 of these aircraft from Russia and assembly under licence of 140 more aircraft by HAL.
Magician>>Even with seperate topics about India and Pakistan some can not stop doing the wrong thing. Flaming… Anyway… You do remember that if you are doing head to head that a hud shows cross… Well that should enlighten your short but unhumoristic attitude… And when you are doing a lot of dangerous manuevres it is very handy to have a radar that locates the direction and distance of you opponent… Never played s simultor boy? And it is not Pakistani attitude mr. It is logic which is hard to find in your memory. I do not want to blame your country friends but only you.
PLA is your brain hibernating.
>>And when you are doing a lot of dangerous manuevres it is very handy to have a radar that locates the direction and distance of you opponent… Never played s simultor boy?
If one accepts your explanation then what the hell is PAF doing telling its pilots to perform “a lot of dangerous manuevres “. when the aircraft has not been installed with a radar.
Can you provide me with any source stating that at the time of the accident the planes did not have any radars installed in them
and the accidents happened due to this. Dont just make up things!!
Like pilots from other airforces the superduper pilots of the PAF are also HUMANS and can make mistakes, so don’t come up with crappy excuses while trying to defend them, just goes to show that you are a jealous pakistani hiding behind a chinese handle.
>> Never played s simultor boy?
It’s the PAF which really needs to play on the simulator and perform a lot of dangerous manuevres on it kid.
>> I do not want to blame your country friends but only you.
And I do not blame you or your PAKISTANI friends.
Even I have a theory on why the planes collided, it seems to me that no chinese built planes have the special devices you were talking about built into them to protect them from collision (remember the ep3 incident).
Magician>>I heard that the last PG accident happended when two PG’s were doing some close air to air and came to close to eachother. Besides that at that time they had no radars installed so pretty dangerous cause one can not judge the collission course without radar.
That is actually the best I have heard in a long time, I mean seriously you pakistanis do come up with good excuses don’t you. Anyways if what you say actually did happen then this could be part of their training, the PAF strategists would have realized by now that they don’t stand a chance against IAF equipped with BVR and ECM.
This way they could manage to down some IAF planes in war and we already know 1 Pakistani fighter plane = 10 Indian ones.
Sign In
