suflanker45NEVER EVER DOUBT JANE’S DEFENCE GROUP.
http://current.com/news/92793184_navy-confirms-us-test-missile-seen-off-coast.htm
I just love how this forum has all these folks who THINK they are smarter than an organization that has been around for over 100 years and is without peer becuase they found some doctored/photo-shop pics on the internet put up by someone who really doesn’t have a clue.
I am glad it wasn’t a Chinese or Russian boomer.
suflanker45A missle was launched close to the US in international waters. It wasn’t heading torward the US mainland. Which brings up an interesting point. If it was an aircraft flying to the US then the contrail should have flown over the chopper and LA on its way to wherever it was going. The aircraft should have been picked up on ATC and its transponder would have reported its ID. We have none of that.
Russia/China see weakness in us so IMO they did this to say “Ha! We caught you off guard and the only reason why the West Coast isn’t under a mushroom cloud is because we didn’t feel like doing that….today.”
suflanker45There is no way to stop them getting that close without attacking the SSBN. The reason it won’t be the Russians or Chinese is because doing something like that is just plain dumb (and quite suicidal).
Read the book Blind Mans Bluff. US subs were getting so close to Soviet Navy bases to bug underwater comm cables for years without getting caught.
Why would it be dumb or suicidal? The Chinese/Russians could have been sending subs close to the US for years to see our response and if they knew there wasn’t any other ships or subs in the area they could launch and leave long before we would respond. We don’t have fast attacks or Orions patrolling our coasts 24/7.
Look up the term counting coup. IMO that’s what this was.
suflanker45Sorry TEEJ you can post all the internet sources you want of so-called experts it won’t change my mind based on my years of experience in aviation and watching launches form the Kennedy Space Center. It was a soild rocket fueled missle.
suflanker45If Jane’s Defence Group says its a missle then I agree with them. They said it looked like the vapor trail coming from a solid rocket motor from an SLBM. I’ve lived in Central Florida for 35 years and have seen plenty of rocket and space shuttle launches. The vapor trail of the California missle reminded me of the vapor trail of the space shuttle’s solid rocket boosters. Hell I’ve seen space shuttle launches and contrails from high flying far away aircraft in the sky at the same time and there is a big difference in them.
The camera man said he filmed the trail for 10 minutes well it does take several minutes for an aircraft contrail and SRB smoke to dissipate long after the aircraft has passed or missle/rocket motor has burned out.
Btw our government isn’t going to admit that a Russian or Chinese boomer got that close and got caught with their pants down.
suflanker45For sure there was and is a conflict between South Korea and Japan: the conflict about the Liancourt Rocks/Dokdo/Takeshima. I was not talking about an armed conflict. This was no argument that a Japanese sub was responsible – it should show you that you have no proof at all that it was a North Korean torpedo!
Oh I like this piece of logic.:p “I’m going to say a Japanese sub might have done this but I’m not really saying a Japanese sub did this.”:rolleyes: Oh yeah I know about those pile of rocks you’re talking about.
[/QUOTE=leon;1574119]But you still argue for your kind of politics based on no proof and complete ignorance about the fate of those, who would be the victims of your political methods.[/QUOTE]
Politics? Where did I say anything about politics? You didn’t read my words correctly. I’ve been talking about total, full scale, totally crush and destroy warfare.
[/QUOTE=leon;1574119]Washington DC is a good example: obviously not only corrupt leader would be killed if the city would be destroyed by a nuclear bomb. As also a nuclear bomb would not only exclusively kill North Korean leaders.[/QUOTE]
WELL DUH!!!
suflanker45There is also the possibility that it was a Chinese sub, a Russian sub, a Japanese sub (there were also clashes between Japan and South Korea in the last decades)
Well this statement blows your credibilty. You make a statement and back it up with nothing and there hasn’t been any armed conflict between South Korea and Japan since 1945.
suflanker45Hence you’ll have no problems with someone suggesting to nuke Washington DC.
Actually that’s a good idea. It will clean out that corrupt, incompetent scumhole once and for all. The rest of the country will still function and then we can put someone like me in charge.:diablo:
suflanker45Lets assume torpedo attack by submarine. How do you know who’se submarine. Are there any submarine owing nations (besides NK) that would have an interest in keeping tensions between SK and NK? Can or has this scenario be(en) ruled out?
Yeah I hear Paraguay wants to see NK and SK duke it out so they can buy the Pay For View rights and market it all over the world in order to boost their sagging economy.:rolleyes:
By the way magnetic detonating keel breaking torpedoes have been around since World War 2. Pretty easy for NK to have a supply of them.
suflanker45e.g. the 1983 Rangoon bombing – 21 mostly S. Korean dead, including the foreign minister, the ambassador, & several other senior people.
I see that you accept that the N. Korean artillery aimed at Seoul is dangerous, yet suggest a course of action (nuking Pyongyang) which would result in it being used. Obviously, you don’t understand how deterrence works. 🙁 Ah well, you appear to have diagnosed your own problem in your opening words. You have taken the first step.
As I have stated in other posts its SK fault for letting 11 million people and their government live under the guns of someone who they believe will use them.
Now when I launch my war you think I’m going to wait a couple of hours before I follow up my nuke strike? As soon as the nuke goes off the airstrikes start, the artillery pounds the DMZ and then the troops cross the DMZ. The ones near ground zero will wear NBC suits. Seoul and other cities will be hit but the NK’s will have to redirect a large chunk of whats left of their artillery to deal with my full scale invasion. Command and control will be disrupted, airfields taken out and troops landing on both coasts of NK. They will be too busy having to deal with multipe threats from different directions to mount a large scale strike against SK cities near the DMZ.
Your not a West Pointer either, are you?
People die in war. I except that. The rest of you apparently can’t handle that (even tough there has been a large peacetime body count over the last 50 years) and therefore the problem of NK being a pain in the butt will continue until all parties involved will be as broke as they are which is not that far off.
suflanker45In this era of Wiki and Google there is still chronic brain deadness out there.
To leon:
The Korean War never ended. An armistice was agreed to but Syngman Rhee refused to sign and on May 27, 2009 NK withdrew from the armistice so a state of war is in place.
There are 500 artillery tubes and 200 MRLs pointed at Seoul yet you think they are not in danger? So if I pointed a loaded gun to your head you wouldn’t be in danger either by your logic.
The area has been peaceful except for some small border clashes? Really?
17 Jan 1968 31 NK commandoes cross DMZ to kill President Park Chung Hee in the Blue House. It fails, barely, 30 NK’s killed one captured, 7 SK casualities and 6 American casualities. This alone is a very good reason to move the freaking government further south.
October 1968 130 NK commandoes cross border firefight breaks out over 100 killed.
March 1969 six commandoes cross border and kills SK policeman.
Oct 1969 NK commandoes cross DMZ and kill 4 American soldiers.
April 1970 3 NK soldiers attack and wound 5 SK’s before they are killed.
August 1974 a second attempt is made on President Park Chung Hee’s life.
Nov 1974 first tunnel under DMZ found.
March 1975 second tunnel found.
June 1976 3 NK’s and 6 SK’s killed in DMZ firefight.
18 August 1976 the Ax Murder Incident.
Oct 1978 third tunnel discovered.
Oct 1979 3 NK agents stopped from crossing DMZ 1 killed.
March 1980 3 NK agents killed trying to cross DMZ.
March 1981 3 NK agents stopped from crossing DMZ 1 kia.
May 1982 2 NK agents stopped from crossing 1 kia.
March 1990 fourth tunnel found.
May 1992 3 NK agents killed crossing DMZ dressed in SK uniforms, 3 SK wounded.
Oct 1995 2 agents stopped from crossing, 1 kia.
April 1996 several hundred NK troops enter Joint Security Area.
May 1996 7 NK soldiers enter DMZ. Withdraw when SK troops open fire.
April 1997 5 NK soldiers cross into DMZ at shoot at SK positions before withdrawing.
July 1997 14 NK soldiers enter DMZ and major firefight breaks out.
May 26, 2006 two NK troops cross DMZ. SK troops fire shots making them withdraw.
Oct 7, 2006 SK soldiers fire at NK troops that entered DMZ.
Naval Incidents
1996 Gangneung submarine incident.
1999 First Battle of Yeonpyeong.
1998 Battle of Yosu.
2001 Battle of Amami-Oshima with Japan.
2002 Second Battle of Yeonpyeong.
2009 Battle of Daecheong.
Air Incidents
April 1965 2 NK Mig-17 attack USAF EC-121
April 1969 USAF EC-121 is shot down 31 kia.
Aug 1981 NK fires a SAM at a SR-71. Like it had a chance.:rolleyes:
Feb 2003 NK fighter crosses Northern Limit Line
March 2003 4 NK intercept a US recon over Sea of Japan.
Kidnappings
1969 NK agent hijacks Korean Air aircraft and forces it to land on North Korea.
From 1977 to 1983 NK agents kidnap 70 to 80 Japanese citizens.
In the 1970’s several women are kidnapped from Lebanon.
Since 1953 SK estimates that about 3,800 SK citizens have been kidnapped by NK including high school students.
I’ve left out a few things but you get my point.
You think Kim Jong Il will just gladly give up his power (and possibly face criminal charges) if the US pulls out? Why would he do that? Because he’s a nice guy and reasonable? Yeah right.:rolleyes:
suflanker45Mod Edit: Quoted posting now deleted.
suflanker45I will take your suggestions as seriously as those of someone who would state: “Considering the number of oppressive military regimes and dictatorships the US has backed over the past 50 years, and the number of countries it has attacked or invaded, let’s nuke Washington DC!”
Don’t forget to throw in Moscow, Bejing, London, Paris, Berlin, Brussels, Libson and Madrid since they have done the same thing. Most before the US even exsisted.:rolleyes:
suflanker45One nuke won’t turn all of NK into a wasteland. Nuke the captial to ensure leadership and central command and control are dead. I’m not dropping a 5000 megaton warhead. You seem a little naive about nukes.
Why are 11 million people living within range of a couple of artillery divisions? I wouldn’t. Would you? Sounds like 11 million people who need to be thinned from the herd. As I stated just another way Kim extorts South Korea and its allies.
Again with the “where’s the proof?”. You think Zambia sent a sub to sink this ship? For the last 50 years NK has sent patrols into the DMZ looking to pick a fight, shot at US and ROK troops on the DMZ, dug tunnels big enough to drive tanks through under the DMZ, sent agents into SK and Japan. In some cases to kidnap people and force them to train NK agents to behave like the natives. Had patrol boats attack SK patrol boats. Also the government finances itself via the drug trade and counterfitting as well as weapons exports.
I’m not looking to avenge 46 sailors. I’m looking to end over 50 years of a father then son dictatorship with an outdated military and broken economy making three of the best equipped and best trained armed forces in the world (ROK, USA and Japan) look like the Three Stooges. I’m fed up with the entire Pacific Command going on alert (and yes they do and I did, even though you don’t hear it from CNN) everytime NK rattles its saber.
I’m going to endanger millions in a war? I didn’t put those 11 million people in artillery range and its Kim Jong Il that’s endangering everybody otherwise we wouldn’t be paying shakedown to him every time he waves his wee wee around.
Personally, I want to pull all US forces out of SK and Japan and bring them home then I wouldn’t care what NK would do.
suflanker45North Korea has no modern submarine. It appears to have no modern naval equipment at all. Is there any prove that it has modern heavy weight torpedoes?
There is no example in history that it is possible to end starving, torture and oppression by an air strike killing the leadership and central command. It is a very naive assumption that something like this is possible at all. It would be worth to remember to Korea War: the USAF and USN tried extensively to bomb the North Korean regime into submission – but failed to do it. But they certainly were able to cause the civilian population to starve. They could terrorize the civilian population – but not the regime. There is a misconception what air power can achieve. Certainly it can not end dictatorship…
After you nuke Pyongyang then you launch a full scale attack and send troops across the DMZ as well as multiple air strikes and land troops on both coasts. Its called a full scale war. You’re not a West Pointer are you?
As for Seoul being in artillery range that’s not my problem. Why the SK government didn’t move the seat of government well to the south is beyond me. I don’t want to hear tradition BS either. That you keep your seat of government AND turn it into a major city well within artillery range is very stupid and once again plays into Kim’s hands when he wants to extort SK.
Also for those who scoff at NK’s outdated weapons. They are pretty damned effective in hit and run since they won’t be facing a full scale war coming from the high tech arsenals from SK, USA and maybe Japan.
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