All this back and forth is annoying and doesn’t achieve anything. Can we just drop the whole thing so this thread won’t be deleted too?
Obviously, you missed the “small” part of history where Post Soviet Russia had no chance in hell to pick or prioritize. They had to opt for one over the other. It was the heavy Interceptor Flanker.
What a shocker! Everyone with a brain would have done the same.
It would not have made any difference what kind of Light design jet it would be. Even if NATO would offer Russia to buy your F-16 during the 90’s they could only afford one type, again the Flanker would be the wise choice.Would you rather scrap the Flanker over an F-16!?
It is as clear as daylight that you are showing your true colors here. You are not interesting in debating if the Mig-29 design was/is a good and effective one.
The Mig-35 is a more capable design over the F-16 if we look at radar size, fuel fraction, ordinance, hell the Mig-29 is even a Carrier bird at this stage! What an awful bad concept and design!!!1! SAD..
What you try to push here is that Soviet/Russia opted for the Light fighter with twin podded engines and blended wing body with large LERX as if it is a flawed design just as the Heavy Flanker also was a twin engine podded wing/body LERX jet
Like your underline message is that the Flanker concept and design also is flawed..
And the the only effective and correct judge of things is which side produced and exported the most.If you can’t see the fallacy of this mindset..
Honestly i have never liked the Mig-29, but that is just part of my Biased and prefered taste of things.. like i like the F-15C a whole lot better over the F-16.
But it doesn’t change anything of what the guys at MIKOYAN did when they set about to develop the next and new Generation of jet fighter, Namely the Mig-29.
What. The. Hell??
The point is that the Su-27, or Su-30, at only a little more in cost, can outperform the MiG-29. In other words, the MiG-29 is not cheap enough compared to the Su-27 to justify an aircraft with less overall performance. What does their aerodynamic configuration even have anything to do with that argument? What’s with you repeatedly harping about all this podded engines and blended wing body and LERX when it literally has no relevance to the argument of cost efficiency?
Technical issues are causing delays in the first place, such as structural rework. There’s also the fact that the initial batch of aircraft won’t be using the izd.30 engines. There was also the RuAF chief (think it was Mikhailov) promises of the PAK FA first flight being in 2007.
All that makes JangBoGo’s statements like the PAK FA coming out of nowhere in record time more than a little funny.
A claim about g-load from speculative source interviewed by a nationalistic media group. Are you even trying at this point?
Regarding criticisms of the MiG-29, I have to say I agree for the most part. In terms of capabilities, the MiG-29 really doesn’t offer anything the Flanker can’t do. Yet it doesn’t seem to be much cheaper to operate, which makes its existence even more questionable in today’s environment.
There’s uninstalled thrust, installed thrust, etc. We don’t know anything about the F119, other than the fact that it’s 35,000 lbf (156 kN) class, which can mean any of the above. The F-22 doesn’t need 2*156 kN thrust to reach Mach 2, in fact at that altitude the dynamic thrust is less because of higher altitudes, so needs less than max sea level thrust to get to that speed. The 2*156 kN thrust (or more) is achieved at lower altitudes, and speed limit more from structural limitations, which I think for the F-22 is about 800 knots. Also, the F-22’s operational limit is more set by materials, and the fact that Mach 2+ speeds is generally useless for an air superiority fighter. the Russians and Sukhoi reached the same conclusions for the PAK FA.
What’s the rated thrust for the izd.30 anyways? Some articles repeatedly says 178 kN, usually without citation. PiBu says “16-17 tons”. He also says the configuration is 3 stage LP and 5 stage HP compressor, and presumably single stage turbines. For comparison the 117 is 4 stage LP, 9 stage HP, F119 is 3 stage LP, 6 stage HP, the EJ200 is 3 stage LP, 5 stage HP, the YF120 is 2 stage LP, 5 stage HP. On the other hand, GE AETD prototype seems to be going the opposite direction when it comes to number of stages, with 3 stage adaptive LP, and 10 stage HP. Interesting to see how adaptive engines are actually adding stages (at least on the prototypes).
Before you post anything else of stupidity, take a look at F-15E acceleration Charts up to Mach 1.9
Both Spurt and andraax has mentioned many times before that F-22 has not shown it self superior in climb rate or acceleration over F-15E.
http://www.f-16.net/forum/viewtopic….362337#p362337
And yet we on occations see the monstrious claimed thrust on Both F135 and F119.. like its from a different world.
Get a grip.
We all know what P/W website has of thrust on the F135
Spurts never claimed that, and simply checking the 2010 SAR for the F-22 shows it accelerates from Mach 0.8-1.5 at 30,000 ft in some 52 seconds, noticeably better than a clean F-15E (no CFT) with -229 engines. So look in the mirror before calling other stupid. And while Andraxxus puts out good commentary, he’s simply wrong about the F-22 having a pitot inlet like the F-16. It doesn’t, it’s a 3D external compression inlet with the upper inboard corner generating a pair of oblique shocks, i.e. much better than what a pitot inlet can do.
I’m not going to address JSR’s drivel, this guy believes in the delusion that the PAK FA can do Mach 3. :highly_amused:
Cannot see how the payload would affect the range that much if carried internally.. The effect of additional drag due to weight must be much smaller than adding/taking one third of the overall range. One of the numbers is apparenty BS, can’t say which one..
There’s no way it’s 3,700 km. Consider that the A2A combat radius is some 750 nmi, or 1,390 km, which unlike a strike mission uses a fairly efficient flight profile. The range wouldn’t be much more than double that, and LM themselves state just north of 2,800 km.
mig-31bm: 2800 km is range with a normal payload (2 GBU + 2 AIM-120). 3700 km is possibly range without a payload.
I’d say 3,700 km on internal fuel is fantasy. More in the 2,800 km neighborhood, as stated by LM themselves.
PAK-FA Myth Busting
One does not counter bullcrap with more bullcrap like the video is doing. This is like the third time I’ve seen this garbage posted.
Lol nonsense 384 m/s climb rate was repeated. Sources from a Facebook post. Seems legit. :rolleyes:
Despite wilhelm’s accusations, I didn’t see anything in the PAK FA thread that would warrant closing and deleting it, so I don’t know what’s going on.
I was about to say, that thread suddenly disappeared.
I’m sorry, where does F-35A’s 3,760 km range come from? LM themselves said the range of the F-35A is 2,780 km. Also, isn’t the subsonic range of the PAK FA supposed to be 3,500 km? Where did 4,300 km ever come from?
I’m confused. When an old SAR estimated that the F-35A range may only be 584 nm, people stuck to that like glue, but when the latest figure from flight tests is 669 nm, now the SAR is suddenly not reliable? :confused:
Wait, so you’re accusing people here of cherrypicking only good reports. On the other hand, you dismiss any positive reports as “LM payroll”. Wait, what?
So here’s a question, what do you consider to be reputable? If Berke isn’t, then who is? :confused:
I was expecting more from the roll rate of the F-35. We’ve seen it roll faster during test flights. I’m wondering if there are control law limitations in place to limit the roll rate. Also, it seems like the current 3i g-limit is mostly affecting initial pitch rate.
The demo was decent and it shows the F-35 has formidable maneuvering abilities, but seriously let’s stop throwing out hyperboles. In terms of energy maneuvering it’s not particularly different from a Typhoon or Rafale demo that I’ve seen. The best way I can describe it is a Hornet demo with more energy and much more yaw authority.
6-10% more thrust throughout the envelope is no joke, and if the improved F135 can come in the early to mid 2020s it can make some decent improvements in kinematics. Curious if these upgrades can improve the F119 as well. I’d think that engine can use some upgrades given how old it is by now.