neillyRE: Best single engined fighter-bomber of WW2?
LAST EDITED ON 08-11-01 AT 11:46 AM (GMT)[p]Hi All,
Come on you lot out there, this sort of discuss is like pantoland!!! EXAMPLE: aeroplane ABC is better than aeroplane XYZ! Oh no it isn’t! Oh yes it is!! Come on, this is supposed to be a discussion forum, is it not? It’s no good saying one aircraft is better or worse, than another, then not giving reasons, that can be discussed. In the last fighter-bomber post I did at least give reasons & data to back up my arguement.
Most of us, usually, have a favourite aircraft or two (for whatever reason) & know quite a bit about it/them, & probably have just a fair ammount of general knowledge on a load of other aircraft. So, come on discuss the aircraft, don’t say a particular aircraft is best & not give reasons!! Give reasons so we might, then learn a bit & maybe change our ideas on a particular aeroplane. I for one don’t know anything about Russian A/c of WW2, so how can I, in all honesty say for example the Typhoon is the best F-B, just because after the Mosquito the Tempest/Typhoon are my next favourite aeroplane! Not a very satisfactory way to conduct a discussion, is it? So lets have some facts to back up statements!
Right the soap box has been put away, again.
The FW 190 was not much of a F-B, it was basically a fighter with a bomb added! (to use a variation on a resent point of view). The reasons the Germans did this, was to try & mimmick the Mosquito in the way it caused panick & disrupt the German war effort. However, the FW 190 did little damage (over England) & the Mosquito night fighters accounted for many of these intruders. The bomb capacity was also small & not very effective.
C U all soon,
Neilly
neillyRE: Purple Plain
Not seeing the film I can only guess at the Mosquito variant, but I would think it would’ve almost certainly a RR 34 or a B35. I say this because these 2 variants were still on active service in the RAF, then. It would’ve been relatively easy for a film company to borrow these aircraft for filming.
Regards,
Neilly
neillyRE: “Air Shows” on Discovery Channel
Hi All,
I agree with Steve Airshow on Discovery was well put together, very even in it’s comments (even though the Mig 29’s showed up again. Do the Russians get repeat fees?).
Try Discovery Channel Saturday night, again. Battlefield is on again (18.00 hrs). I know I mentioned it last week, but it wasn’t about Bomber Command, so we’ll try again!
Regards,
Neilly
neillyRE: Best single engined fighter-bomber of WW2?
LAST EDITED ON 06-11-01 AT 10:23 AM (GMT)[p]I see we’re getting a bit more refined in our questions!!!
I agree with Tempest, the Typhoon was a superb single engined F-B.
Neilly
neillyRE: P-51D Mustang vs F4U-4 Corsair
I like your definition of a fighter, Coanda. Much better than mine, I agree with you. Having said that & looking at the Mosquitoes record it was an exceptional all rounder. It certainly could not be said that it was just a ‘stop-gap’ aeroplane, in any of it’s roles.
However, I still think the Mosquito was a better fighter than the Mustang was a bomber, so I still think the Mossie was the best all round F-B aircraft of WW2. In fact apart from a bit of ground support activities which I’ve read about, I think this was it’s sum total of the Mustangs bombing. But then again apart, from the usual bit of general knowledge, we all seem to have, on various aircraft I don’t know enough about the Mustang say how good, bad or indifferent it was as a F-B.
I think a sidwinder on a Nimrod would’ve been as much use as a chocolate fireguard!!!
Best wishes to all,
Neilly
ps If any of you want some good Mosquito books to read (& gen up abit on the Mossie), let me know. There are some very good books on the Mosquito in all it’s different roles, some quite eye opening.
N.
neillyRE: P-51D Mustang vs F4U-4 Corsair
Hi All,
Coanda, if you want Pictures & information on Highball, try getting hold of a book called, A Most Secret Squadron by Des Curtis DFC. It’s all about 618 Squadron & the developement of Highball & Tsetse Mosquitoes.
My definition of a fighter would be: An aircraft used in an offensive role against enemy aircraft. This is slightly vague, but I think it’s difficult to cover the whole range of what is or isn’t a particular type of fighter, bomber etc. It’s easy to say, yes a Spitfire or Mustang is a fighter, but the likes of the Mosquito or similar type,which is on the perifery, must be down to how we perceive them in action. I do think, however, if the RAF (or what ever air force), wants to put certain aircraft into a particular group/catagory, then who are we to argue!
The original concept of the Mosquito was an unarmed bomber, but because the design was good enough to allow guns & cannons to be added,the fighter version should not be condemned to a bomber with guns! A most unfair statement. The fighter was a different variant in it’s own right. If we use a similar arguement, ie looking at original prototype design & then look at the origin Mustang, with it’s razorback & Alison engine are we to say this aeroplane should not have been converted to a Merlin powerplant, which turn it into a formidable aircraft. Very few people look back & condemn the original Mustang & later R-R Mustangs, even though their origins started on the same drawing board, just like the Mosquito Bomber & Fighter etc.
Now I’ve not seen much evidense to convince me, yet, that the Mustang or whatever aircraft was a better fighter-bomber than the Mosquito. So over to you!
Looking forwrd to your next post,
Neilly.
ps I read something about the Nimrod & sidewinders, sometime ago, but put it down to a bit of bulls##t. If it’s true, I think for the ammout of use they’d be in defending such an aircraft, it would’ve been cheaper, & just as effective, to cut a hole in the roof & stick an airman with a shot gun there!!!
N.
neillyRE: P-51D Mustang vs F4U-4 Corsair
LAST EDITED ON 04-11-01 AT 06:04 PM (GMT)[p]Like all aircraft the Mosquito had it’s limitations. I agree the Mosquito wouldn’t go after FW 190’s or the like unless it was a creep up from the rear & shoot down, but then there’s no place for chivalry(?) in modern aerial warfare. The Mosquito pilots would go after targets which they had an advantage over.
Looking at the E/A that are listed as shot down there are not many transport aircraft as you put it, many are front line aircraft like JU 88’s, Me 410’s plus ME 109’s & FW 190’s. So I think wether you like it or not the Mosquito was a fighter, obviously not in the mode of Spitfire, Mustang etc. but it could & did ‘mix it’ with the best of Axis aircraft.
I don’t know what your definition of a fighter is, but I would be interested?
As for the glue problem, I thought de Havilland had sorted it out with the Far East Mosquitoes. I’m not really familar with the Hornet (I’ll do some reading & investigate. I’ll let you know).
All the best to you all,
Neilly
ps The total of E/A shot down is higher than 662, I didn’t notice that some Mosquitoes had shot more than 1 E/A on a sortie.
eg 01/11/44 85 Sqd VY-N shot down a JU88, JU188 & Bf110. Not a bad days work!
N.
neillyRE: P-51D Mustang vs F4U-4 Corsair
LAST EDITED ON 04-11-01 AT 03:36 PM (GMT)[p]The Mosquitoes went into Europe on their own on Day Ranger sorties. Mosquitoes would fly over parts of Occupied France & Germany looking for trouble. They would head for enemy airfields or pick targets, such as railway lines & go looking for trains to attack. These Mosquitoes would be mainly on their own, but ocasionally in 2’s, different aircraft flying to many different targets, anything to upset the German war effort.
From the listings of E/A destroyed it would difficult to say what sort of sortie a particular Mosquito was flying, although it is possible to tell night intruders from day rangers because night intruders are listed as 2 days eg.14/15 Oct.44 239 Sqd. PZ245 shot down FW 190. There are some day ranger sorties listed, but not many. Although there are listed, some of the areas where the E/A were shot down.
Another couple of good books, which are fairly quick read, are the Osprey books: No.4 Mosquito Bomber/Fighter-Bomber Units of the RAF & No.9 Mosquito Fighter/Fighter-Bomber Units of the RAF, this one deals more with the F-B’s. They are both interesting, I’ll convert you, yet!
Best wishes,
Neilly
neillyRE: P-51D Mustang vs F4U-4 Corsair
I’ve just done a quick count of how many enemy aircraft the Mosquito shot down & it comes to 662 (give or take 1 or 2) E/A destroyed in aerial combat. The list includes everything from JU 52 transports to FW 190 fighters. Add to this 650 V1 flying bombs & I think to describe the Mosquito as a bomber with guns or strike aircraft is a bit daft! But then again, it does show what a superb aeroplane the Mosquito was.
I suggest you get a book out the library called Mosquito by Martin Sharp & Michael Bowyer. This is the Mosquito bible & charts the history et al of the Mosquito, you’ll find it quite enlightening.
Regards,
Neilly
neillyRE: P-51D Mustang vs F4U-4 Corsair
Hi David,
I totally diagree. The Mosquito fought most German Aircraft & brought down more than it’s fair share. Yes, there were problems, in the Far East, because of the type of glue used to construct the Mosquito. However, when this was changed the problem was cured (pardon the pun!).
If the Mosquito, with cannons & guns, wasn’t classed as fighter- bomber then what does the FB stand for in Mosquito FB IV? I would point out that Mosquitoes roamed all over enemy territory both day & night, causing lots of damage, to both targets on the ground & in the air.
The true test of how good a weapon is, has got to be how your enemy views it. In the case of the Mosquito, if a German pilot managed to shoot a Mosquito down, then he was credited with 2 kills. I think this shows just how good this aeroplane really was.
Neilly
neillyRE: P-51D Mustang vs F4U-4 Corsair
LAST EDITED ON 03-11-01 AT 11:53 AM (GMT)[p]Hi All,
The greatest fighter bomber of WW2 is most definitely the Mosquito FBVI, without a shadow of a doubt!!! The Mossie FB VI was designed for attack bombing, the Mustang etc. were fighters with bombs added as an after thought, & their bomb load wasn’t that significant, compared with the Mosquitoes. The Mustang etc were alright for close support, but anything else, no chance. The Beaufighter wasn’t really a fighter bomber either. Torpedo & rocketeer, yes. But as an F-B, not really.
Regarding the Mosquito, you only have to look at a few of it’s exploits- Gestapo HQ, Oslo, Shelhaus Building, Copenhagen & not forgetting the most famous of them all, Amiens Prison, to see it’s F-B capabilities. I can’t remember anything like this, in the Mustangs et al’s histories. But if I’m wrong, I know someone will put me right.
Sorry folks but I’m very biased toward the Mosquito, most certainly best multi-role aircraft the RAF ever had, until perhaps the Tornado!
All the best,
Neilly
neillyRE: On the telly the other night…
LAST EDITED ON 01-11-01 AT 11:00 AM (GMT)[p]Hi All,
Looking in the programme listings, there appears to be an episode of Battlefield on Discovery Channel, this Saturday evening. Don’t know wether it’s same series as on the Beeb, just letting you all know.
Neilly
ps. Halibag, you stick up for the Halifax, & no it doesn’t bother me, not mentioning the Mosquito. What does annoy, is when TV companies make programmes with histotians & specialist people, who seem to forget there were more aeroplanes on the allied side than just Spitfires, Lancasters, Mustangs & B-17’s.
OOps! time to get off the soap-box.
C U all soon
N
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