China just pwned the Philippines there.
the International Court gave jurisdiction of that specific island to the Philippines, and China just disregarded it and did its thing.
Shows how powerless a world court can be.
any more details?
flown as in what way?
I doubt any Soviets flew the Iranian F-14s during the war
I doubt Iran gave any F-14s to the Soviets
It is possible they may have allowed Soviets to look at the plane.. in Iran.
No it is not the end of the Su-25.
Its designed for CAS.
CAS has always carried higher risk of getting shot down, just like attack helicopters.
Quite a few Su-25s were shot down in Afghanistan, it didn’t mean the end of it.
but I do believe the era of the Su-25 will eventually reach its end. sooner rather than later
Paralay
Here is the Swiss Evaluation
but I have not seen other available methods of comparison
why don’t you look at the way actual air forces evaluate aircraft. I believe a few evaluations have been leaked, like the Swiss one. Maybe some older evaluations from decades ago are available.
your excel sheet is all over the place and has a lot of fallacies. such as giving every variable (which your excel sheet doesn’t explain its justification) equal weight.
or why theres trainers and attack aircraft with fighters. it doesn’t make any sense.
Paralay,
how exactly did you come up with some of those numbers
efficiency/cost
generation
nozzle rotation angle?
not only the numbers, you need to justify why these are even important variables to overall effectiveness
Wow, labeling me as living in the 1950’s… priceless. Does that make you a real keyboard warrior due to being from the age of the internet? Seriously, trying to ad hominem me with an age label not only is against forum rules, it’s also a blatant deflection. T-6, which is the origin of the Su-24, began as an offshoot of Su-15 scaled up and adding in technologies for short field performance. It started with a quad lifter arrangement and evolved to its current shape. Su-24 had 2/3 the range and payload, but enjoyed a big speed advantage over F-111.
It wasn’t intended as a personal attack, it was meant to refer that you must have been reading 1970s or 80s era Cold War information. in this case incorrect information). Thus I assumed you must be around 50 years of age. it is regrettable you got offended over that. its something that should not have been said.
but it doesn’t change my content after that:
https://www.suchoj.com/ab1953/Su-19/home.shtml
Das Projekt Su-19 (intern T-58PS) stellt eine Su-15TM mit ogivalen Tragflächen, ähnlich der damals in der Entwicklung befindlichen T-10-1, dar. Das Projekt Su-19 wurde nicht realisiert.
Kurzzeitig wurden die T-6 Prototypen und die Su-24 irrtümlich von westlichen Experten als Su-19 bezeichnet, bis dann 1981 die wahre Bezeichnung Su-24 bekannt wurde

But for arguments sake, lets move beyond that and get back to the claim that the F-111 would be a good multi-role aircraft.
its ridiculous to assume that just because it was derived from a fighter, a bomber would make a good fighter.
Just like you can’t expect the A-7 to be a good fighter since its lineage stems from the F-8, or the Su-34 with its Su-27 connection.
Not with out substantial modifications at least. And this thread is more about actual planes, not a bunch of what ifs and experimental types
which you seem to keep pushing. If we went by that logic, possibilities become endless.
You seem like one of those guys that is determined to get the last word.
and I was correct :applause:
news reports and articles > mk.1 eyeball
For those interested in actual facts about the Venezuelan F-16 situation instead of making up stories based on photos
here are some important articles. A lot of these are pretty well known but there are a few who are pretty unfamiliar with Venezuela
This of course ties into the main rationale behind this thread on diversifying suppliers
https://emerge85.io/articles/venezuela-opts-for-guns-over-food/
But relations soon turned sour. Part of Chavez’s socialist rhetoric was to present himself as a force against the US bogeymen. “Around 2005, the US became resistant to supplying spare parts for the F-16 jets, so in frustration, the left-leaning government had to look elsewhere,” Ellis said. Venezuela first turned to Europe to update its equipment but had little luck with the US ally. It was forced to approach new strategic partners, the first being Russia.
This move to the Kremlin has since transformed into an $11bn relationship. Russia began selling Venezuela mid-level capability aircraft, which are considered a backbone of its national air force.
http://www.bna.bh/portal/en/news/400101?date=2011-06-4
The Venezuelan Airforce is suffering F16 aircraft spare part shortage due to the US -imposed embargo on weapons sale to Caracas.
pressure from Washington has now forced Israel to freeze a $100 million contract with Venezuela to upgrade its U.S.-manufactured F-16 fighter jets. The Fuerza Aaerea Venezolana (FAV) had originally purchased the F-16A/B aircraft in 1982.
also cited by
http://www.f-16.net/f-16-news-article1481.html
the last time the US supplied spares to Venezuela was 2005, but there was a case where a Florida man illegally sold some parts in the mid 2010s
http://www.f-16.net/f-16-news-article1501.html
Wrong Wrong and Wrong again. ROFLMAO.
You seem like one of those guys that is determined to get the last word.
Yet you could have easily used that effort to actually look up the dates, and look up news articles. They are all easily available.
You would’ve discovered how old the Venezuelan F-16s are
You would’ve discovered when they received upgrades, its relationship with Israel
You would’ve discovered how they could and couldn’t get spares after the US began reducing its supply
You would’ve discovered when it purchased the Su-30MK2 and why they did it
instead you’re just posting pictures and making analysis using mk.1 eyeball.
there’s really no way around it as it is really clear cut fact on Venezuela’s F-16 situation. You just refuse to actually do your homework.
Here’s another tidbit, the US also has a policy of withholding certain weapons systems unless another Air Force nearby also fields an equivalent missile.
google singapore.
This is my last word on the subject since its pretty cut and dry, no matter how many times you wanna cry Wrong. tons of information on F-16.net and google about the spare situation, the F-16 roles, etc.
do your homework.
Wrong. You really need to check dates and news articles
The Israeli upgrade and sales happened BEFORE Chávez. What they are flying with is remnants from that time and they can’t return to Israel for more.
The flanker sale happened AFTER Chávez. Specifically due to US spare issues. It’s well covered. Use google
I also think you need to check out how Venezuela’s oil economy is doing. Hint, it’s not so good.
This also further confirms that not every country has the luxury of a domestic aviation industry or large oil reserves that can help mitigate spare shortages.
The “sanction” piece is a bit overblown on here. While AECA and ITAR can prevent sales (and resales), one look U.S. equipment operated by sanctioned regimes makes the argument moot.
Iran is still operating F-14’s some 39 years after the revolution (there have been peaks and valleys in numbers operational aircraft, but given the USN experience with the F-14, Iran’s ability to keep them flying is nothing short of impressive). Venezuela still operates their F-16’s (despite threats to sell them), there are simply too many operators to prevent them from obtaining spares. Egypt doesn’t seem too worried about their fleet of F-16’s or M1A1 (though they are clearly diversifying due to poor relations and the shutting off of of the aid spigot).Most of the time (as in the case of Israel), the U.S. and others will shut off resupply for the duration of the conflict. All this is to say that Saab wasn’t worried about installing US engines and U.S. fly by wire tech on their Gripen. In fact, even when BAE was sued over improper notification and payments for export licences for the Gripen to Czechs and Hungary, the US didn’t block the actual leases.
There is a simple work around, if your going to use weapons with US content be sure to stockpile spares and munitions. Sadly, even most NATO nations have a paltry war reserve (even during the Cold War few kept more than a 30-15 day supply of munitions, based on hopelessly optimistic expenditure predictions).
On IRAN:
Iran is a unique situation because they have the Human Resources, knowledge, and an aviation industry that is capable (to some extent) of reverse engineering aircraft parts and building their own. That’s one reason why their American made jets have lasted so long. Most other air forces don’t have that option. For example, I don’t think Indonesia or Malaysia would be able to manage as well should some spare support for their F-16s or especially, the 18s gets suspended.
on VENEZUELA:
If you follow F-16.net, Venezuela has two squadrons operating the vipers. Both are flying early block 15 models. Because of spare issues, both are no longer flying air to air missions and are limited to air to ground. The reason why they are lasting so long is because they were fortunate to have done some upgrades right before Chavez came into power. But now that is no longer an option and it is very likely both squadrons will be grounded soon due to lack of upgrades and airframe fatigue on such an old model
I guess if you were in that situation..
that means your enemy has some powerful friends .. creating uncertainty over supplies
so I guess it really depends on the type your enemies are using.
Looking at other examples, air forces operating a diversity of planes tend to purchase the same type of aircraft
India – M2K and Mig-29
Egypt – F-16 and M2K, and now Rafale and Mig-35
Greece – F-16 and M2K
Malaysia – MiG-29 and F-18, and likely to transition to Su-30 and something western
UAE – F-16 and M2K
Qatar – Typhoon and Rafale and more?
Its probably imperative to keep the fighters/attackers diversified (most likely to face supply problems), compared to other non-combatant types like tankers and transports which are more likely to get spares.
with that in mind, one option is a French type. Rafale
the other will either be US or Russian, depending on the political orientation of you and your enemy. F-35 or Su-35
F-16 or M2K if you want to take it a previous generation.
I would love to have the Gripen, but its large American components means if the US places sanctions, the Gripen could be rendered useless (correct me if I am wrong).
what are the main differences between the Egyptian M2 and the MiG-35?