zheng1980Corrections to the thread before
Su-27 unit is based in Chengdu military district
zheng1980uhh I thought this was suppose to be a J-8 thread. anyways, India currently is not considered as top priority threat for China, and it doesnt have to be that way in future. Whatever we deployed in LanZhou military district is insignificant to what we have deployed on the east coast. Yes, China may have a Su-27SK unit in Chongqing, but it pales in comaprison to what Nanjing Guangdong military district have. PLA SSBMs maybe deployed in LanZhou military district in significant numbers, but most of them are not for India, the PLA regard that region as the “backyard” and more or less deploy their SSBM assets their to keep them away from major threat coming from the east. If you look at the number of airforce units and army’s “fist” units deployed in the region, you will see that it is no comparison even with relatively peaceful regions such as Jinan military district. I dont understand why some of the Indian posters here insists on China considers India as a threat at all, and India draws majority of Chinese forces, they are simply not the fact, and if they were the situation, is it even good for India? Shouldnt the two major nations in Asia with very little (1962 border dispute is minor confrontation from Chinese point of view) past confrontations be co-operating with each other?
back the J-8II, here is a nice pic to steer the topic back on tracks, this is my favorite view of the J-8II, just looks so mean and rugged, a real man’s plane 😀
zheng1980How about some pics of F-8II GD? lets drown the flames with lots of pics. I would love to see all the pictures of F-8II available on the net and publishings posted here. Post your collection and I see if there are any that you dont have, then I will send you from my collection.:D
zheng1980Going back a bit on the threads, Isnt the Qinling engine suitable for FC-1 as well? since its output is better than RD93, and if JH-7A can fit 2 of these, I assume one will be small enough to be fitted into the FC-1? and its already been used on the JH-7A.
Just hope either Kulun 3 or Qinling is ready before PAF’s delivery, so we dont have to rely on Russian engines. Engines have always been the weakest point of Chinese aviation industry, and IMHO JH-7’s limited service is also due to not having a capable Chinese engine. Maybe PLAAf is even waiting for the WS-10A to go into series production before introduce the J-10 into wide spread service.
zheng1980SAC really have to prove themselvs with the J-XX project, although I like the J-8II (unlike most of my countrymen who think its a dud 😀 ), J-8II’s end is near, and with J-11 is just a short term income source, they really have to work their butts off to beat the CAC in J-XX project. It is their only hope to win a contract with the PLAAF for the next gen heavy weight fighter, I dont see much of hope in the way of export for SAC in near future, it simply has nothing to offer, the J-8II series is too old, and the J-11 series are not allowed for export.
zheng1980Originally posted by haveblue
Actually they can identify and attack targets autonomously. The fact that they were designed for otherwise doesn’t mean the PLA will employ them similarly.
It sounds like you think the PLA are stupid, and all they know is how to fly in a straight line and drop the load.
The target information would never get the opportunity to be relayed back to PLA C2. The recce package would be downed before it located the target.
And how is the CVBG going to locate the recce package? there is more than just one way to loact and send target information.
How will the PLA locate it in the first place? They don’t have adequate satellite surveillance capability, and they don’t have the maritime recce capability. Anything they do send to find it – let’s say it’s a H-6 – will be shot down, or destroyed by a better equipped, technologically superior opposition.
PLA dont have a maritime recce capability?? what about all those H-6D? SH-5? maybe you think we still living in the stone age. How exactly do you know PLA dont have adequate satellite surveillance capability? H-6 with its surface search and track radar can track a destroyer sized target well outside of an aegis ship airdefense range, and of course it wouldnt be unescorted.
CVBG’s can be located, can be tracked, can be attacked, and can be destroyed. The PLA is simply insufficiently equipped, and lacks the C2, C3I, and experience to conduct it successfully. Introducing an obsolescent bomber makes zero difference. It would be a suicide mission.
Yes the Chinese are just poorly trained, under equipped, and couldnt beat the Mighty US of A even if they were given a free shot at it :rolleyes: I bet thats what McArthur was thinking during Korean war before we cross the Yalu river.
zheng1980—————————————————–
The question then becomes why does India get the Su-30MKI and China only the MKK? And Rosoboronexport (didn’t they change their name recently?) has been marketing the Su-35 all over the place, which would trash any Russian Su-27, so the notion of only exporting “monkey versions” is inaccurate.
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As I mentioned before , their attitude changed because of financial problems for their projects and AF recently. the choice of getting SU-30MKI and MKK is two folds, firstly, China didnt need a multirole fighter with super agility, all it wanted was a good strike fighter, secondly, Russians trust India as an allie moe than China, thus it would export higher tech weapons to India. Monkey versions always has existed, for example the T-72s exported to middle east wont as good as the ones exported to warsaw pact countries, and the warsaw pact countries’ examples werent as good as Soviet ones. Same goes for aircraft as well.
As for the connection between Peace Pearl program cancellation and the import of Su-27SK, China would rather have a aerodynamically inferior aircraft with better avionics (comparing to Su-27SK) than relying on an fully imported aircraft as its main air supirority fighter.
zheng1980I think GD is right about Russian exporting downgraded stuff, but they are not the only ones, US was trying to sell F-16-79 to China before the 89 incident. The Su-27 was only considered when US cancelled the peace pearl program to upgrad the J-8IIs.
However, Russian attitude has changed recently (mainly due to financing problems), for example Su-30MKK was clear for export before similar or better upgrades were introduced into RuAf, but the Russians still wouldnt give their best for export which is understandable.
The problem is, although we know we are recieving downgraded stuff, they are still better than what we had in the early nineties. Even now, with maybe the exception of J-10, Nothing els is better than the SU-27SK in the sense of aerodynamic performance and avionics.
zheng1980———————————————————–
B]All this exagguration of the Backfire’s value against CVGBs… The only country not making that mistake was the Soviet Union itself. The only way the Tu-22M can be effective by any moderately aware CVBG is by a massive regiment-sized saturation attack with external targeting support, preferably something stealthy like a hidden frigate nearby with a Ka-25TS helo, or with a lot more risk a Tu-95RTs or something like that. And even so, such attacks would not be sustainable at all. Sinking one carrier would IMHO be all you could hope for if you don’t have a really significant (let’s say 3 regiments or 60-75 aircraft) number of Backfires.[/B]
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I dont think Tu-22M3 will be used by themselvs agains CVBG, it will be an important element of a saturation attack on CVBG, which ws the Soviet Union’s tactic agains US CVBG (like you stated). The other use of this a/c is probably to pose a threat to the US airbases in Asia, thus making US think twice about intervening in possible Taiwan/Mainland conflict.
For Vortex: Here is the answer to your democracy question.
I think Democracy is only good if it is introduced slowly, and not the way US has been forcing it onto many countries. The livelyhood of countrymen comes before democracy, many countries would start a civil war or unrest if democracy is introduced suddenly (since all the sudden, many people find themselvs with power). I dont think China needs democracy right now, in this period of development, stability is most important. My country’s founding father is Sun, and thats well recognised by every party in Mainland and Taiwan, and I’m sure his dreams will be realised one day, just not now. Thats just my opinion, not right or wrong.
zheng1980Yes, US of A can nuke everyone many times over and still have left overs for martians, and poor China can nuke BIG US of A only once:D
Democracy?? Wouldnt it be nice for the whole world to live under the protective, democratic umberella of Uncle sam?? 😀 Seriously, I think US have been abusing the word Democracy a bit too much lately. Its OK to invade other countries if you have the power, just dont bring up democracy as an excuse.
Anyways, maybe its my fault that I brought up the whole issue of US vs China, but I only intended to set up an senario incase of US military intervention in Taiwan issue. Now please cool down everyone 😀
zheng1980————————————————————
yea you go ahead and try that and pretty soon nukes would be flying through both sides…. Interesting that when China gets a few of these toys that Russians have many then it’s as if they are the ones to be recogn with…
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And just because US was able to win in conflict against countries like Iraq, Afghan and Serbia, they really think they can conqure the whole world now:rolleyes:
zheng1980———————————————————————————–
Dont mean to butt into a Sino-US confrontation, but my guess is that if the above ever happens then… Beijing will not require any electricity for the next few years….everything and everyone will be glowing brightly through the night…
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Vise versa for Washington, now would US risk a nuclear war to retaliate a conventional strike?
BTW, that was just a possible senario people, afterall we dont need the back fires to get the same results.:D
zheng1980Arguements about Russian stuff aside. Tu-22M3 can be used to strike US bases in Asia too right? and how would US airdefense cope with such a threat? I think the only way to stop them is to use black knights F14As based in Japan to intercept the launch platform before it launches the K-26s, once the missiles are lauched, it would be pretty hard to intecept them wouldnt it (even with PAC3s)?
Since China is very close to base in Okinawa, if we decided to launch an attack on Okinawa base, would there be enough time for the F-14s to react and intercept the backfires before launch?
zheng1980No body said Russian tech was rubbish, at least not the Chinese and Indians anyways (if it was rubbish, then we are dead:D )
Tu-22M3 + K26 is a deadly combination for US carrier group. However, the question is that would China be able to purchase these in large numbers, a few of these just wouldnt be enough against the 7th fleet. The backfire is also a expensive piece of equipment to mentain, thats part of the reason why Russia has withdrawn part of their inventory from service. Production line of the aircraft has also ceased, would it be such a wise move to purchase the aircraft at this time?
To Vymple, H-6D + C611 is not a bad combo for anti ship missions, the C611 is an extended ranged C601, allowing the bomber to deploy these weapons beyond aegis ship’s air defense. The heavy warhead also assures sinking of the target with a single hit.
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