Armed Update“Dedicated jammer” is a vague term. A jammer emits radar energy from an antenna. The APG-81 can deal a powerful source of energy directly from its T/R modules with more gain than any self defense jammer. The only disadvantage is the APG-81 can only jam in its X-band.
Armed UpdateThe MiG-31’s thrust to drag ratio enables it to get over M3.0 but it is operationally redlined to Mach 2.83 to preserve engines and airframe. BTW, it reaches that speed loaded, not empty.. The F-22 does not even come close to that.. Checking facts before posting would not harm..
Source?
There is nothing that proves the F-22’s technology being so far ahead.. A larger radar is always more powerful than a smaller one but that does not mean it is technologically more advanced..
Prove it. The F-22 uses lines of code only rivaled by the F-35. Both the RBE22 and the APG-77 use GaaS modules, the F-22 has more of them. Keep in mind the French just got AESA technology, technology the US had for a decade. Most Rafales still use PESAs.
Armed UpdateThe cited flight ceilings of both planes are the same. In fact the F-22 has been seen to fly even above the 20,000 m limit. Speed is classified for the F-22, however I doubt its not a significant disadvantages once the MiG adds weapons.
I don’t think HOJ missiles really are effective till the terminal phase with a seeker that small. Noise jamming can still blunt a incoming missiles by using less power, but enough power to overwhelm the enemy radar. You will need a RWR to fire against the enemy and provide accurate guidance in the midcourse phase, which requires TDOA using multiple planes, which is a hard in a BVR duel when the enemy is firing upon you. There are also countermeasures like switching your jammers on and off.
Yes LRF is the most effective way for finding velocity and range, you don’t really need effective picture for that. However if you want to range via triangulation….yes you need a high quality image.
Armed UpdateArme while i somewhat agree with some of your point, i have to say it really hard to understand your English. May be it better to shortern your paragraph next time
Sorry, I am typing from a tablet.
No, Mig-31 and Mig-25 is faster than F-22, actually alot faster and fly alot higher even when loaded
Faster, yes, however I doubt the difference is significant from a cheetah to a slug. Higher, no. They both fly 20 km+ high.
This i can somewhat agree, yes in term of radar aperture
F-22 > F-35 > Typhoon > Gripen > Rafale
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Actually F-35 is stealthier now.
No, they can use noise jamming as well, and each kind of jamming have their own advantage
Yep. Noise jamming is much more suited against AESA opponents. Eurocanard jamers are mainly for DRFM. I don’t see effective noise jamming with jammers that small, processing power on the other hand is more key to smaller pods which is most effective for DRFM.
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there are so many aircraft with turbojet engine can fly at 70-80K feet, so high altitude wont be that much of a problem for Ramjet engine
Also the design of Meteor make give it more lift than AIM-120, thus better turning ability at high altitude
Agreed, however I doubt its a overwhelming 3 times NEZ.
This is wrong, imagine blurry isn’t what make a target hard to shot at, lack of information such as velocity, distance, heading, altitude are what make target hard to shot at, but you are right about the part that detection range are not the same as identification distance
If your target is blurry you can’t really measure accurately. You measure range by getting the tight high quality angles from triagulation or motion anyalsis.
good LRF can reach around 20-30 km
Agreed.
Armed UpdateThe US Navy uses the Growler because it can fight alongside the Super Hornet not because its somewhat better at EW. They both use the same EW package which the Growler can carry more. The APG-81 has no significant disadvantage compared to the ALQ-99 since it has the same power. ALQ-99s can be carried in more numbers however the APG-81 has higher gain. The only downside is the APG-81 can only jam in its own bandwith(X-band). That is why they are trying to make the Next Generation Jammer.
Haavalara still hasn’t provided me a source the MiG31 can go Mach 2.6 with 6 R-33s…..
Armed UpdateThere is no real difference in capability in Prower and Growler EW technology. They both use ALQ-99. The Growler is ordered to protect the Super Hornet fleet it is not for protecting the F-35.
Give me a source the MiG-31 goes that fast with R-33.
Armed UpdateThe problem with any form of deceptive jamming from creating false signals is it has to set a frequency to jam. Against a frequency agile radar, its near impossible to pin down all of those. To effectively jam an AESA you use noise jamming where all the frequencies are blunted.
No Russian jamming systems are not superior. Their ground EW systems are impressive(US Army doesn’t use ground EW and are quite impressed recently). However AESA radars can be used to jam as well and with their AESA frequencies and higher gain are far superior to other jammers. The F-35 has been used to replace the Prowler because of this.
No matter who recessed your are, missiles tied to planes are not in any aerodynamic shape. No you can never go top speeds with external loads.
I failed hard? I am quickly getting a Russian fanboy troll vibe.
Armed UpdateUtterly hilarious people claim a 4th Gen like the Rafale is superior to the F-22.
“The F-22 is slower than the MiG31/25”
-Well the F-22’s exact speed is classified, but estimates range around 1490-1700 mph while the MiG31/25 can go up to 1800-2000 mph. But people don’t realize that the MiG has to carry external weapons meaning it can never reach its top speed in realistic combat. Jane’s studies shown, Eurocanards, Super Hornet and Su-30 are no faster than an F-35 despite going 250 mph+ faster in max speeds. I’d say the MiG-31/25 is around the same speeds as an F-22.
“The F-22’s electronics are no better than planes like the Rafale”
-Most Eurocanards have early AESAs development while the US is far ahead of radar technology. The F-22 uses 2000 T/R module radar while most Eurocanards are around 1000, only the Eurofighter goes 1500. Most of all the F-22’s radar has been upgraded in the APG-77v1 in 2012 which uses newer GaaS modules from the F-35. The Russians are even more behind in AESA technology.
The Rafale has cool touch screens however.
“The F-22’s missiles can be jammed”
Very difficult.
As I explained here from my F-35 post:
Jamming is always a problem with missiles but fortunately the US has some of the advanced technologies. The AMRAAM has both active radar homing and datalink guidance. Its exact ISR capabilities are classified but it can probably take in multiple frequencies from Link-16, MALDJ, IFDL or even the aircraft’s own AESA as a communication device. It can probably use SARH as well in midcourse phase.(probably never will its much easier to jam compared to datalink guidance) Combined with all these capabilities it makes the weapon difficult to jam before its too late. The APG-81 radar on the F-35 is even more difficult to jam since it uses AESA, frequency agility, narrow beamforming, and automatic steering. Jammers tend to very low gain compared to AESA, it won’t be till the Next Generation Jammer till we see some dedicated AESA based EW weapons. DRFM is even more limited on AESA. And even then, it has to use a lower fraction of power since it may excite the F-35’s ASQ-239 to assist an anti-radiation shot on the opponent if triangulated. Also if radar is jammed, the EOTS can enter targetting info on the fire control computer to assist the AMRAAM. Since the F-35 has stealth it can provide updgrades for the AMRAAM, older fighters like the Super Hornet are a bit of a disadvantages since the enemy an fire back and then you have to maneuver so the missile relies purely on seeker. (fire and forget). This is the reason the Navy is more invested in a BVR Sidewinder. A good start in the future is to make an AESA AMRAAM seeker to make the missile a better BVR mutually dueler or a dogfight missile.
Worse of all most Eurocanards like the Typhoon and Rafale mainly use DRFM jamming since their pods are a lot smaller. And AESA easily defeats DRFM. They are very effective against seekers(except the Japanese missiles) however.
Also the Meteor isn’t IOC yet. And keep in mind “3 times the NEZ of the AMRAAM” means “3 times the NEZ of the AIM-120B.” The Meteor has the same outer frame of an AIM-120B(diameter, and length), and keep in mind at fights beyond 60,000 feet, air gets really thin making ramjets less effective plus the Meteor has more drag than the AIM-120C7. I am not saying the Meteor is inferior than the AIM-120C7(and the AIM-120D by 2018), but the difference is less dramatic. The Meteor was a 1990 concept, the US experimented with ramjets as well.
“The F-22 is only stealthy in the radar spectrum, it can be defeated in the infrared spectrum, and wave emission spectrum”
Not exactly true. People claim systems like IRST and RWR like on the Rafale can maul a F-22 at BVR.(like picard578 from Defense Issues)
IRST has always been a threat to stealth airplanes. However IRST has many limitations. They don’t really work that well under weather or clouds. Also cited ranges like(50km-90 km) doesn’t mean you can ID the target. For example you can see a target from 5 km but you cannot ID it till much closer like 1 km. To fire on a target you need good resolution from the amount of pixels on target. Blurry targets are much more harder to shoot at. All these factor lessen the pK of a missile. I suspect a 50 km capable IRST vs. frontal aspect target like the PIRATE to not get a good firing resolution on the F-22 till around 10 km. IRST also cannot range or measure velocity as well, so it has to use things like triangulation and lRF. LRF can only go 20 km usually under good weather. Triagulation can measure range pretty fast, however velocity of target is a bit slower, plus active radar guided missiles are poor against stealth. Added to the fact the F-22 uses TOPCOAT and supressed engines making the target that harder to compute possibly supressing the detection range.
RWR detection relies on a very incompetent radar user. AESA technologies can avoid RWR since they are at so much of a gain advantage.
Armed UpdateJamming is always a problem with missiles but fortunately the US has some of the advanced technologies. The AMRAAM has both active radar homing and datalink guidance. Its exact ISR capabilities are classified but it can probably take in multiple frequencies from Link-16, MALDJ, IFDL or even the aircraft’s own AESA as a communication device. It can probably use SARH as well in midcourse phase.(probably never will its much easier to jam compared to datalink guidance) Combined with all these capabilities it makes the weapon difficult to jam before its too late. The APG-81 radar on the F-35 is even more difficult to jam since it uses AESA, frequency agility, narrow beamforming, and automatic steering. Jammers tend to very low gain compared to AESA, it won’t be till the Next Generation Jammer till we see some dedicated AESA based EW weapons. DRFM is even more limited on AESA. And even then, it has to use a lower fraction of power since it may excite the F-35’s ASQ-239 to assist an anti-radiation shot on the opponent if triangulated. Also if radar is jammed, the EOTS can enter targetting info on the fire control computer to assist the AMRAAM. Since the F-35 has stealth it can provide updgrades for the AMRAAM, older fighters like the Super Hornet are a bit of a disadvantages since the enemy an fire back and then you have to maneuver so the missile relies purely on seeker. (fire and forget). This is the reason the Navy is more invested in a BVR Sidewinder. A good start in the future is to make an AESA AMRAAM seeker to make the missile a better BVR mutually dueler or a dogfight missile.
The F-35 will have a lot of tools to deal with a BVR opponent with a lot of countermeasures. Superior stealth, ISR from other sources, guidance versatility, sensor versatility and antiradiation techniques, and strength in numbers will ensure an F-35 dominance on the battlefield.
Infrared missiles are much harder to jam(you can only really jam their datalink) you can’t jam the seeker. The F-35 cannot carry the AIM-9 Sidewinder internally now which is a big problem. The British are thinking of carrying their ASRAAM internally, and hopefully the US will integrate 2 AIM-9s, to support the 4 AIM-120s in Block 4-6 upgrades with the expanded weapons bay.
As far as guns go, I think we can possibility get some gun kills now and then. Sukhois and MiGs are really agile so the US has to train their pilots extensively to deal with those disadvantages such as they did in Vietnam with the F-4. A BVR barrage to drain the enemy initiation and numbers plus numerically superiority is key to win an engagement. Also, LM is trying to make the Cuda missile which will allow the F-35 to carry 12-18 missiles externally. These are shortened AMRAAMs by their warheads removed and function as hard-kill weapons.
Armed Updatea rafale can pinpoint its location from quite a distance as well (radio waves travel further than radar’s effective range, and make it detectable, as always)
All fighters have RWR….the Rafale isn’t some special anti-radiation weapon.
Detecting the enemy’s location will depend on the enemies technology capablities. If the enemy has AESA radar and LPI, finding him would be much difficult to no detection at all since the RWR will notice it as background noise, plus if steered in narrow beams, RWR usually doesn’t have the gain to find it.
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