there goes that discussion , well atleast we’re better off then 16.net and didnt waste 3-4 pages of bandwith talking about something that didnt happen 😉

Idesof just likes to jump to conclusions. He has no idea about what he’s talking about most of the time and gets angry whenever someone disagrees with him.

I swear, I think he thinks that the F-22 and F-35 are gifts directly from God. :rolleyes:

do you still have that quote somewhere? I could swear you posted it here at one point but I’m not having any luck finding it.

It’s in the Raptor supercruise thread.

Personally, I don’t see the big deal either. Nothing about what he said really revealed anything new we thought about the Raptor, it just confirmed some suspicions. I doubt if any of it was classified either.

You can have a Navy fighter go to the Air Force but you can’t go other way around. The costs of stregthening the frame and preparing it for landing on a carrier would be very, very high.

Well I’m not a raptor pilot so i really wont know but the pilots who fly it say that the best way is to go supersonic right of the deck , the metz comment regarding this is available on codeone (the article i have posted umpteen timeS) and frazier can link you the article regarding supersonic climb by dozer.

Here ya go.

“Sorry to bust the bubble on that one – but actually it can’t, kind of depends on fuel weight/altitude/speed, I’ll try to explain correctly & quickly (I’m not an engineer – if there’s a pratt&whitney rep that views this please feel free to correct me…). At slower speeds the engines are not putting out maximum thrust, the more air flow there is through the motors the more thrust you’re getting, so, for example, I did a takeoff where I was at about 570 knots at Edwards, I was prior to the end of the runway, not used to being that fast so I pulled up to 90 degrees nose high (single ship with my own tanker and first chance to try this with a Raptor so I decided to see what she’d do), and the mass flow at that point is close to producing max possible thrust, the a/c continued to accelerate in the climb to .99 mach passing about 20 thousand feet and then slowly began to decelerate – (unofficially according to the engineers I would have ended up around 65+ thousand feet on that day and broke every time to climb record we could think of for category & weight class — and oh by the way, that wasn’t a Streak Eagle or Flanker stripped down bare with weight removed, no external stores for combat configuration, etc., that was in a stock, off the line F-22, full of gas, combat configured with the internal weapons bay full – as an Eagle guy previous I was absolutely astonished, I hope someday we go after the official records because this jet will likely crush most of them. One last interesting point is that I did that going straight up after takeoff (that day I ended up blasting past my assigned altitude at Edwards of 29 thousand after takeoff, ended up at 31.5 AFTER a 5g pull to level out which at that weight and altitude should bleed energy fast but when I rolled out I was still at 330knots KCAS!!), but normally to get those altitudes they use a specific climb profile like the Streak Eagle did (I forget what it’s called) climb at .9m to the mid 30 thousands, push over to accelerate to supersonic and then finish the climb profile to bust the records from there).”

He says more here:

link

I would guess that the RoE have changed with new modern equipment such as the APG-79. The Raptor pretty much dispenses with BVR range RoE. I’m guessing that the new AESA radars have a pretty advanced target indentifcation system.

The Super Hornet should have no problem against the Su-27 variants and the J-10 BVR. WVR, the SH should still be pretty good or at least better than the Tomcat.

Rest of you said I have no attitude, but this. For what’s kind of reason given you lead to say F-22 has less drag than YF-22? What are they?
The angle of F-22A’s swept is less than YF-22, only area of fin tail less than YF-22, so we can say logically, that F-22A has less weight than YF-22 but for drag is uncertain.

You cannot measure drag by just two factors. While they increased wing angle, they probably changed the wing’s profile to compensate. Not to mention the numerous changes to the body.

The engineers had about 6 years to go over the YF-22. The F-22 does everything better than the YF-22 as it has been refined to a much finer point.

Yet, from what I’ve heard the F-119 and F-135 are not between the F-22 and F-35! :rolleyes:

They were designed for two different mission so they have different features. The new engines are a lot more specialized than the older genration especially the F119’s. The F119 was pretty much designed for TVC from the outset.