Gentlemen,

any Zhuhai 08 gallery page..looking for JF-17’s newest shots 🙂

Thanks

At the moment they do face it with even more “underpowered” MiG-21s.
When all did went to plan, we would see right now some sqns with “underpowered” Tejas in frontline-service. When the Pakistani are still some years away to field their “underpowered” JF-17s and J-10s.
The antidote for the F-16s are the MiG-29s and MKI!

Work is going on the ‘underpowered’ part:
http://www.pakdef.info/forum/showpost.php?p=118662&postcount=188

China to re-export Russian jet engines to Pakistan

New Delhi, Nov 20 – India appears to have failed in persuading principal military ally Russia to stop China from supplying RD-93 aircraft engines to Pakistan for their Joint Fighter-17 (JF-17) Thunder programme, a report in Jane’s Defence Weekly says.

The Pakistan Air Force (PAF) chief, Air Chief Marshal Tanvir Mahmood Ahmed, told the British journal at the just-concluded Dubai Air Show that the PAF expects to receive the first eight JF-17s powered by RD-93 engines under a ‘small batch order’ over the next few months.

In a thinly veiled reference to nuclear rival India lobbying Russia to pressure China into not clearing the engine for re-export to Pakistan, Ahmed dismissed concerns over the RD-93 as ‘an issue created from here and there’.

Senior military officers in New Delhi said this setback was yet another instance of India’s impotence in dealing firmly with Russia, its largest defence equipment supplier.

Over the past year, senior ministry of defence (MoD) and Indian Air Force (IAF) officials have givenfeeble assurances that Moscow had ‘in principle’ agreed to disallow the re-export of the RD-93 engines to the PAF.

But these declarations now remain highly questionable, a senior IAF officer said, declining to be identified.

‘We (China and Pakistan) are partners on the JF-17 aircraft and avionics but on the engine, it is exclusively from Russia and China has the contract for it,’ Ahmed said.

Vested interests, he added, had pushed this issue into the media.

Ahmed said the series production of the JF-17s was under way and would be followed by weapons’ integration after trials.

‘By the end of next year, we hope to have a squadron of JF-17s but this could be 10 or 12 aircraft rather than a traditionally larger squadron size,’ he said.

Earlier this year, China handed over two JF-17 fighters to Pakistan with the RD-93 engines under the equal partnership agreement between the Chengdu Aircraft Industry Corporation and the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex. Pakistan plans an initial production schedule of 16 JF-17s.

Russia had contracted to supply China 100 RD-93 engines with an option of providing 400 more that, it now appears, are definitely being transferred to Pakistan as part of Moscow’s overall pressure tactics to keep India within its armaments fold.

This pressure has manifested itself in several ways, the latest being the arbitrary doubling by Moscow of the annual escalation rate of contracted weapons systems that is expected to cost India billions of dollars.

New Delhi’s concerns over the RD-93 engines stem from the IAF’s warning last year that if ‘corrective measures’ were not swiftly implemented, India would lose its air superiority over Pakistan.

Air power played a dominant role in the three wars and the 11-week-long border skirmish the neighbours have fought since independence 60 years ago.

‘Unless immediate steps are taken to arrest the reduction in IAF’s force levels, the nation will for the first time in its history lose the conventional military edge over Pakistan,’ former IAF chief Air Chief Marshal S.P. Tyagi had declared in a classified three-page letter last year to then defence minister Pranab Mukherjee.

He stated that the PAF was being bolstered with the acquisition of 44 F-16s from the US with the ‘clearly defined goal’ of attaining parity with the IAF.

And with China supplying Islamabad JF-17 aircraft fitted with RD-93 engines, the PAF’s combat squadrons would increase from 19 to 26 by 2011-12, Tyagi added.

Conversely, he cautioned that by 2015, the IAF’s combat squadrons could decrease to 26.5 as the IAF has retired or is phasing out scores of ageing Soviet-era MiG-21, MiG-23BN and MiG-27 fighters.

Though the IAF was upgrading 125 MiG-21BIS, 40 MiG-27 and around 67 MiG-29 fighters, as well as building additional Jaguars, its numerical strength was fast degrading.

‘Having higher capability does not necessarily mean we don’t need numbers. Numbers will still be required as technology can and will be adapted by all,’ Tyagi repeatedly stressed.
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http://www.nerve.in/news:25350099725
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International shipping can easily take 2-3 months from my experience.

Israel may have tricked Syria radars to conceal raid

WASHINGTON: Israeli fighter planes may have managed to escape detection by Syrian radars during their September 6 raid by forcing the detection system to make a mistake, an aviation-specific magazine reported.

US defense and industry officials believe Israeli F-15 and F-16 fighter jets may have been equipped with the US-developed “Suter” airborne network attack system, the magazine said on its website.

The technology allows users to invade communications networks, see what enemy sensors see and even take over as systems administrator to manipulate sensors into positions to hide an approaching aircraft, the report said.

On Tuesday, Israeli military radio confirmed for the first time that a raid into Syria had taken place.

US and British media have reported that Israeli planes struck a suspected nuclear site, in which North Korean specialists may have been involved.

http://www.thenews.com.pk/updates.asp?id=30263

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3456456,00.html

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That is why they are all quite, because they all got WTFd. :rolleyes:

Tphuang,
to be fair, enough evidence has been produced above. Now, rather than continuing with uncalled for arrogance, do the honourable thing, and don’t keep digging deeper and deeper the hole that you have dug for yourself. I am surprised that a knowledgeable and time honoured defence poster like yourself had not heard of “torgos cruise missile” before?

and this is where the trolling began and Indians made sure that little bit fire was well enough feuled, further speculation was added when people demanded the source for Tphuang’s info.

Anyway, no country gives its top notch information to anyone..what is so hard to beleive in this case? With Americans roaming around, everyone is more cautious naturally.

Pakistan gets whatever meets the requirements it wants..and it pays for it, JF-17 is a good example of this and Al-Khalid..alot of in-house developments are going on in this project…alot of machinery used to make it comes from Europe, not China..I was lucky enough to visit HIT and interview alot of people..locate the post on PDF…and alot of stuff comes from China too…but not all..significant/almost all amount of Assembly and cutting equipment is non-Chinese, Pakistan is already in the process of upgrading the avionics, the software is being update in-house, new transmission is in place..BMS was added inhouse.

So, no one ever is a single source of anything…you can claim what you want guys.

Anyways…any further out-of-topic discussion is total lack of maturity on whoever is involved in it so Gentlemen and ladies…grow up…and I wonder where is the moderation team.

by the time PAF replaces its junkyard of Mirages, Fantans and J-7s and those 50 J-10s fly with the PAF, the IAF would have a new AESA equipped 4.5 generation fighter as well. contend with that..:rolleyes:

as for those F-16s, IAF’s upgraded Mirages and Fulcrums will take care of them, MKI’s are an overkill..

as for the JF-17, the Tejas will be more than adequate for it.

Yea good for you..if IAF starts replacing its junk on time…4.5 Gen planes and Tejas still carry a huge variability in timings of availibility.

I don’t think so. Why would China need to be persuaded by Pakistan’s bargaining tactics?

It is more the other way around, I think. China is the one in a position of strength, while Pakistan is the one who is desperate to get as much from China as it possibly can. And China will give generously to Pakistan because it views Pakistan as a strategic ally, but there is of course a limit.

I think China is well aware of Pakistan needs in view of India’s superior air forces. Therefore, the JF17 / FC1 joint venture happened, in direct response to India’s Tejada. If India ever received F35 from the USA, China may respond by giving Pakistan more potent airplanes such as J10s, or J11Bs. But do not think that China is the one who needs Pakistan’s sales. It doesn’t.

But it does need a strong Pakistan able to defend itself relative to India. And that is why China does what it does regarding Pakistan.

You missed my point..its competition between various organizations willing to get the order and it helps China too.