phrozenflamePakistan had enough money to spend on PAF before the Earthquake, recently Government also sold plenty of bonds, the reserves are all time high.
If you had done Year 10 accouinting, you might have heard the term ‘Cash Flow’.
jjshep, everything is part of the costs, training etc , no one usually mentions fly-off prices anymore nowdays, you get to see prices of whole ‘package’.
F-16s dont require maintenence, pilot training etc, maybe new ones for the newer stuff, but thats about it, nothing dramatic. F-10s…long term credit.
And thanks for sharing your opinion, We dont need your Aid if you have so much to whine about it. I give aid wherever tragedy occurs, regardless of the government, country, religion or anything else.
————–
Now to the interesting Part of the thread…
Wth is FC-20 :S.
F-10s to be imported…GREAT.
F-16s incomming…GREAT.
BVR…GREAT.
What American BVRs? if AIM-120…what version?
—
http://dawn.com/2006/04/13/top8.htm
Dawn says F-16s and F-10s.
phrozenflameThats why I said , let it be on record , Only time will tell the real story behind babur.
Pray tell me which investigative report ever came up with any evidence of Dr Khan’s involvement in such a Big N Wall Mart , Till the American blew the whistel .
Had that not been the case no one would have even knew about it and it would been life as usual.
Comfortably or Not , But Every time the Americans find up new thing they ask the Pakistani Government for more information and some question to Dr Khan.
Well I am sure Indian’s wouldnt have done any thing about it , But Thanks to the Americans atleast Justice has been done and he has been exposed. Again it was done more in US interest of non-proliferation then to please any one
How long can he continue remain in Pakistan ….Well Lets see 😉
America and Non-proliferation are words you cant say in a single sentence lol…infact that goes for all declared and undeclared Nuclear Powers.
Yea, especially after the Nuclear Deal with India, lets see how long he’ll be in Pakistan….legalising Nuke Tech Transfer…hehe… Indians have always made a way for us 🙂 ..first they give us a chance to test nuke….and now this 🙂
Thanks 🙂
phrozenflameYeap, this is what he said about Journalism:
‘I believe in equality for everyone, except reporters and photographers.’
Ok now lets stick to the topic.
phrozenflamePilot unrest in India’s air force: At least 200 pilots want to quit!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4895768.stm
The Indian Air Force is facing a crisis after at least 200 pilots indicated they wanted to leave the service, a BBC investigation has discovered.
The pilots say poor working and living conditions, and the difficulty of living apart from their families, have prompted their decisions.
But they say the IAF is not allowing them to quit their jobs. One pilot attempted suicide after being refused.
The IAF said premature retirement cases were decided only after proper
scrutiny.
Having given the prime years of my youth to the country, what have I asked for? Just to be allowed to live with my family
Air force pilot
Many serving pilots spoken to by the BBC in different parts of India say they are no longer motivated to carry on in service while being separated from their families. They say deteriorating service conditions and a culture of “sycophancy being promoted by senior officers” is making it difficult for them to work.
They say the situation is aggravated by the authorities’ refusal to allow them to quit.
‘Victimised’
Figures obtained by the BBC show that between 2002 and 2004, 263 pilots were allowed by the IAF authorities to seek premature retirement.
However, in 2005 only eight pilots were allowed to leave.
The BBC has seen classified documents that show that one of those given premature retirement managed to do so only after he obtained a letter from a member of parliament.
The IAF says it spends millions of rupees on each pilot’s training
One of the pilots, with more than a decade of service with the IAF, said he was dismayed at not having been given permission to leave the force, and felt victimised.
“Having given the prime years of my youth to the country, what have I asked for? Just to be allowed to live with my family. Even that is being denied,” he told the BBC.
“I have been told by the authorities to shut up, otherwise I would be transferred to a place from where I would be able to do nothing,” he said.
Air force response
Another pilot who was denied permission to leave attempted to commit suicide.
He is currently undergoing psychiatric help in an army hospital.
In a written response to the BBC, the IAF said: “When any officer of the IAF asks for premature retirement on compassionate grounds, these cases are investigated and, when found genuine, the officer is allowed to proceed on premature retirement.”
The IAF also said it was investigating the suicide attempt.
We have to ensure that cockpit vacancies are kept filled at all times, as failure to do so would jeopardise national security
Indian Air Force
But the angry and frustrated pilots say they feel they made a mistake by joining the force.
Many of them challenge the IAF’s claim that they are given basic facilities such as free accommodation.
One officer with more than 15 years of service said: “Whether you are posted in a small or a big city, you are not given an accommodation of more than two small rooms.
“If on a two-year posting, you are moving houses every six months. Only those who do it know the stress they undergo.”
Commercial airlines
But the IAF says the terms and conditions of service are made known to the young men and women at the time of joining.
It says millions of rupees are spent on training them to become pilots.
“We have to ensure that cockpit vacancies are kept filled at all times, as failure to do so would jeopardise national security,” it says.
But an added complication has been the emergence of many new private airlines in India that has led to a massive demand for trained pilots.
Many of them see the air force pilots as their best bet.
The BBC asked one of the pilots whether he and his colleagues were looking to leave the force to join commercial airlines for higher salaries and a better lifestyle.
“What is wrong even if we do plan to become commercial pilots?” he said in response.
“We have given the best part of our life to the country. I would also request you to have a look at the lists of candidates applying for commercial pilots’ licenses.
“You would be shocked to find majority of those are relatives of senior commanders, and in some case these seniors themselves,” he alleged.
—
Before it was the Army, now we have serious motivation problems in InAF.
phrozenflameChinese-Pakistani warplane almost ready to roll ISLAMABAD, April 10 (Reuters) – Pakistan Air Force is expecting the delivery of its first multi-role combat aircraft modelled on China’s FC-1 Xiaolong in early 2007, a spokesman said Monday. The PAF plans to induct more than 100 Joint Fighter-17 (JF-17) Thunders, jointly produced by China’s Chengdu Aircraft Industry Corporation and Pakistan Aeronautical Complex, to replace a fleet of ageing Mirage fighters. “The programme is on schedule and the fourth prototype would be tested by the end of April,” Air Commodore Sarfraz Ahmed Khan said. The flight will be used to test the aircraft’s avionics and weapons integration. Small batch production of the single-seat, single-engine JF-17, will begin in China in June and the aircraft would be delivered to Pakistan in early 2007, he said. Serial production of the aircraft would start at the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex in Kamra by June 2007, with aim of supplying both the Pakistan Air Force and export markets. Pakistan and China had been negotiating with different companies to buy the avionics package for the JF-17 aircraft, which at $12 million apiece is half the cost of an F-16.(Posted @ 18:50 PST)
http://dawn.com/2006/04/10/welcome.htm
I’m not sure in what configuration we’retalking 12 million, but anyway, this post be for record purposes.
phrozenflamehttp://dawn.com/2006/04/10/welcome.htm
Chinese-Pakistani warplane almost ready to roll ISLAMABAD, April 10 (Reuters) – Pakistan Air Force is expecting the delivery of its first multi-role combat aircraft modelled on China’s FC-1 Xiaolong in early 2007, a spokesman said Monday. The PAF plans to induct more than 100 Joint Fighter-17 (JF-17) Thunders, jointly produced by China’s Chengdu Aircraft Industry Corporation and Pakistan Aeronautical Complex, to replace a fleet of ageing Mirage fighters. “The programme is on schedule and the fourth prototype would be tested by the end of April,” Air Commodore Sarfraz Ahmed Khan said. The flight will be used to test the aircraft’s avionics and weapons integration. Small batch production of the single-seat, single-engine JF-17, will begin in China in June and the aircraft would be delivered to Pakistan in early 2007, he said. Serial production of the aircraft would start at the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex in Kamra by June 2007, with aim of supplying both the Pakistan Air Force and export markets. Pakistan and China had been negotiating with different companies to buy the avionics package for the JF-17 aircraft, which at $12 million apiece is half the cost of an F-16.(Posted @ 18:50 PST)
—-
ISLAMABAD – The Pakistan Air Force is expecting the delivery of its first multi-role combat aircraft modelled on China’s FC-1 Xiaolong in early 2007, a spokesman said on Monday.
The Air Force plans to induct more than 100 Joint Fighter-17 (JF-17) Thunders, jointly produced by China’s Chengdu Aircraft Industry Corporation and Pakistan Aeronautical Complex, to replace a fleet of ageing Mirage fighters.
“The programme is on schedule and the fourth prototype would be tested by the end of April,” Air Commodore Sarfraz Ahmed Khan said. The flight will be used to test the aircraft’s avionics and weapons integration.
Small batch production of the single-seat, single-engine JF-17, will begin in China in June and the aircraft would be delivered to Pakistan in early 2007, Khan said.
Serial production of the aircraft would start at the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex in Kamra by June 2007, with aim of supplying both the Pakistan Air Force and export markets.
Pakistan and China had been negotiating with different companies to buy the avionics package for the JF-17 aircraft, which at $12 million apiece is half the cost of an F-16.
BAE Systems Plc BA.L was one option being considered for sourcing the avionics, according to defence and diplomatic sources.
(Reuters) 10 April 2006
phrozenflameApril 10, 2006 Monday Rabi-ul-Awwal 11, 1427
Chinese-Pakistani warplane almost ready to roll ISLAMABAD, April 10 (Reuters) – Pakistan Air Force is expecting the delivery of its first multi-role combat aircraft modelled on China’s FC-1 Xiaolong in early 2007, a spokesman said Monday. The PAF plans to induct more than 100 Joint Fighter-17 (JF-17) Thunders, jointly produced by China’s Chengdu Aircraft Industry Corporation and Pakistan Aeronautical Complex, to replace a fleet of ageing Mirage fighters. “The programme is on schedule and the fourth prototype would be tested by the end of April,” Air Commodore Sarfraz Ahmed Khan said. The flight will be used to test the aircraft’s avionics and weapons integration. Small batch production of the single-seat, single-engine JF-17, will begin in China in June and the aircraft would be delivered to Pakistan in early 2007, he said. Serial production of the aircraft would start at the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex in Kamra by June 2007, with aim of supplying both the Pakistan Air Force and export markets. Pakistan and China had been negotiating with different companies to buy the avionics package for the JF-17 aircraft, which at $12 million apiece is half the cost of an F-16.(Posted @ 18:50 PST)
http://dawn.com/2006/04/10/welcome.htm
😀
—
ISLAMABAD – The Pakistan Air Force is expecting the delivery of its first multi-role combat aircraft modelled on China’s FC-1 Xiaolong in early 2007, a spokesman said on Monday.
The Air Force plans to induct more than 100 Joint Fighter-17 (JF-17) Thunders, jointly produced by China’s Chengdu Aircraft Industry Corporation and Pakistan Aeronautical Complex, to replace a fleet of ageing Mirage fighters.
“The programme is on schedule and the fourth prototype would be tested by the end of April,” Air Commodore Sarfraz Ahmed Khan said. The flight will be used to test the aircraft’s avionics and weapons integration.
Small batch production of the single-seat, single-engine JF-17, will begin in China in June and the aircraft would be delivered to Pakistan in early 2007, Khan said.
Serial production of the aircraft would start at the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex in Kamra by June 2007, with aim of supplying both the Pakistan Air Force and export markets.
Pakistan and China had been negotiating with different companies to buy the avionics package for the JF-17 aircraft, which at $12 million apiece is half the cost of an F-16.
BAE Systems Plc BA.L was one option being considered for sourcing the avionics, according to defence and diplomatic sources.
(Reuters) 10 April 2006
phrozenflameand the pigs can fly, whatever floats your boat 🙂
If Americans and Britain can proliferate, everyone in the World can. Enough said.
phrozenflamethe terminal stage of the Klub ASM flies at Mach3.2 a few meters above the sea level. the physics of speed is not an issue. the 120km is lo-lo-lo range, a Hi-lo-lo profile will end up giving it a range between 120 to 300km depending on % of lo flight.
But Ground isnt as flat as the sea…thats the point. Physics of speed is not in question, physics of manouvering at rough terrain at low levels with that kind of high speed is.
phrozenflameNEW DELHI: With Pakistan testing its new ‘Babur’ cruise missile for the second time last month, the Army has speeded up its plan to raise a special regiment for the land version of India’s own BrahMos supersonic cruise missile.
Already equipped with missile groups to handle the 150-km Prithvi, 700-800-km Agni-I and 2,000-km-plus Agni-II ballistic missiles, the Army’s new BrahMos regiment will include three batteries of six-road mobile autonomous launchers each.
“The land-to-land version of BrahMos, which flies at a 2.8 Mach speed, was tested for the first time at Pokhran in December 2004. Since then, preparations were afoot to induct the road mobile complex of this missile in the Army,” said an official.
“With terrain-hugging and infrared seeking capabilities, the Army will use BrahMos as its precision-strike weapon. It has a strike range of 300 km, which can be enhanced further,” he added. :diablo: :diablo:
Seeking answer to my earlier post, I found this on another forum,
On a HI-LO trajectory, with the missile cruising to the target area at an altitude of about 14,000 meters (46,000 feet), the maximum range is about 300 kilometers (185 miles), while on a LO-LO trajectory the maximum range is about 120 kilometers (75 miles). Maximum speed is about Mach 2.6 at high altitude and about Mach 1.5 at low altitude.
http://www.vectorsite.net/twbomba.html
That seems to make more sense.
Apart from Brahmos, India’s other Response to Babur:
http://202.87.40.14/data/videos/taming_babur.wmv
phrozenflameDr Khan’s Second Wal-Mart
FORCE March 06
By Prasun K. Sengupta
1. Zero Credibility of the Report.
2. No mention of Sources by Author.
3. Writen by Indian, for Cheesy Indian Magazine.
4. Stupid Logic Being Applied by author, e.g.
“First indications on the existence of the three-nation LACM project came on 30 October 2003 when the Director-General of Pakistan’s Inter-Services Public Relations, Maj. Gen. Shaukat Sultan confirmed for the first time that Pakistan is developing a counter to India’s BrahMos supersonic multi-role cruise missile”
It just means that Pakistan is working on a cruise missile, dont know where it indicates three nations working on it. Well, whatever sells to target audience, i.e. The Indians.
Time for some real stuff…
http://www.ibnlive.com/videos/fullvideo.php?id=7799
Pak N-missile leaves India stunnedVishal Thapar
CNN-IBN
Posted Wednesday, April 05, 2006 at 12:53
Updated Wednesday, April 05, 2006 at 22:06 Email Print
New Delhi: Pakistan’s acquisition of cruise missiles has led India to insist that cruise missile tests must be notified beforehand as a nuclear confidence building measure(CBM).Navy Chief Admiral Arun Prakash said Pakistan’s sudden acquisition of the Babur missiles is a destabilising factor.
“The cruise missile that Pakistan has acquired is very fascinating. We’re studying it with great interest,” said Prakash.
At the last round of Indo-Pak talks on nuclear CBMs in August 2005, India had no idea that Pakistan had equipped itself with a cruise missile.
Despite Pakistan’s suggestion that cruise missile tests must also be notified in advance along with ballistic missile tests, India, which has been testing it’s own Brahmos cruise missile since 2001, thought it unnecessary.
Hence, the agreement was restricted to ballistic missile tests.
Barely a week after the agreement, Pakistan sprung a surprise on India and the world by announcing its arrival as a cruise missile power by firing the Babur.
The second test firing last month has convinced India that cruise missiles now have to be brought under the umbrella of nuclear CBMs. This tops the agenda of the next round of nuclear talks in Islamabad in May.
“A cruise cruise missile would destabilise the deterrent,” says Prakash.
The worry is that the next arms race between India and Pakistan will be in the category of cruise missiles.
With Islamabad already declaring its intention to nuclear-tip the Babur, the prospects are ominous.
Unlike ballistic missiles, the terrain-hugging cruise missiles are difficult to detect and are also deadly accurate. This is bad news for nuclear deterrence in the sub-continent.
India now faces a new threat. A nuclear tipped Babur will force India to rework its deterrence strategy.
phrozenflameI’m wondering how will the missile hug the rough terrain at those speeds, I’m guessing it will have to slow down significantly for that..
phrozenflameVympel, F-22 is simply out of the league here.
Indeed they have long way to go if you are going to compare to F-22 , F-35, Typhoon etc.
phrozenflameIts also confirmed at Pakdef.
Also anyone know the prices of both the products?
phrozenflameYea, ppl here in Pakistan believe A-Bomb did save us from an Indian Invasion. You could here all the political and millitary top brass saying there will be no winners in war and the A bombs arent for show off, they’ll use it if time comes. Now the equation has further balanced, both nations have enough weapons to wipe off all major population centres. Its both nations or nothing. So Nukes are a strong detterent.
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