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In 1979 Peres was in the opposition, so even if there was any plan, he would not have necessarily known of it. Besides, 1979 was two years before the strike on the Iraqi Osirak plant, which was considered a huge gamble at the time, no one was sure it would succeed. It was also a year before the IDF/AF received the F-16s which would eventually carry out the Iraq strike, at the very tip of their range. It’s hard to see how someone in 1979 would plan a strike at Pakistan, at more than twice the range. As the above mentioned article says “it is impossible to … measure the seriousness of Israel’s plan to attack the Pakistani arms facilities.” . Personaly, I don’t believe there was ever much substance to such a plan.
(Peres, BTW, is also well known to have opposed the Iraq strike)
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logical enough, but he’s also been a PM, so he may know the insides..it all depends upon how good is this news. We’re all speculating the extremes here for the sake of discussions.

As for part 2, i think apart from Turkey no other muslim country recognizes israel due to palestinian probs…Pakistanis consider hostilities against palestinians, especially dishonour of dome-of-rock often, thats considered very very hostile among ppl here..its been happening for 50 years.

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hey dude nice to talk without flames on either side eh? makes a nice change..

oki .. I dont think the arrow 2 was used then, i dont think it was even in service, have you kept up with the Israeli defence news? they have worked on a lot of antimissile systems after GW1 (erm thats gulf war 1 not george w 1).

You do realise ill have to ask you for sources on the Anti Anti ABM that pakistan is supposed to develope.

I also have to ask if you realise that it might mean a redesign of the re entry stage and might also mean a bigger missile. unless pakistan has managed to get the size of its nukes down.

When did peres say Israel didnt plan to attack PA nuke facilities? just s question, if it was post 1998 then he might not have been lying and might have only been refering to the rumours in pakistani press that India Israel and USA were going to send in comando units to take away pakistani nukes.

and you do remember Israel does had boats with popeye ? so it might not be a bright idea on either side..
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Pak wouldnt be putting a big nuke towards israel anyway ;), you understand that. I know israel’s been working on other methods apart from ABM, laser was the latest in the news..some US project they’ll pick on to eliminate rock threat from hezbollah…but you know destroying a nuke missile 100-500 m makes the explosion even more effective..so Arrow-2 is the best def, Israelis will make it much more better. no doubt about that whatsoever.

As for my anti-anti ABM claims, I assumed it logically because they tested shaheen 1 god knows how many times depsite the fact every test was ‘100% succesfull’ as claimed..so there’s a limit on improving the missile..the range was the same, the CEP was the same..god knows why they kept testing again and again. (that was kind of a rhyme lol) You can argue this assumption, which im sure you would or anyone else would.

Peres was asked about attacks in 70s-80s on Geo TV, he said there was no plan like that ever made.

@Groo, Competition is a good thing..efficiency, lower costs, better product, win win situation..nice to see that if it exists. Mr. Khan produced a product early and so got all the market share, no a better product is out, things will turn. Its just like how a market works..

bottom line is war-war is a loose loose situation if there wasnt a war, we wouldnt be here on this forums, i’d be preparing for my economics A-levels this may-june..geese..i must go lol…

EMP is everywhere, i think only USA has operation warhead of this kind.

I’m not saying Pak attacking Israel or anything..okay just justifying why we need shaheen.

Now i thank god Israel is in our Range:

from: Haaretz.com

Documents: Israel has mulled hit on Pakistani nuke facility

By Yossi Melman

Israel has considered attacking nuclear installations in Pakistan, newly declassified U.S. State Department documents suggest.

According to these documents, the possibility of an Israel attack on the nuclear facilities in Pakistan came up in 1979, during Jimmy Carter’s term as U.S. president. The documents also make clear that the U.S. government did not hold special discussions to address Israel’s “preventive strike” plans.

The documents are being released by the National Security Archive, an independent non-governmental research institute based in Washington that specializes in disclosing unclassified documents under the terms of the Freedom of Information Act.

The Israeli plan came up in a meeting held on September 14, 1979, by a disarmament consultation committee, a panel created in the 1960s by the executive branch, but which has ceased to function. Meeting participants related to “urgent” nuclear matters. The Carter administration was particularly worried about reports indicating that Pakistan was making efforts to attain nuclear weapons and attain parity with India.

During the meeting, committee deputy director Charles Van Doren aired concerns that China was helping Pakistan attain nuclear capability. China’s policy, Van Doren argued, evinced double standards: On the one hand, the Chinese claimed they were not helping their neighbor; on the other hand, they were urging the Americans to help Pakistan cope with the “Soviet threat,” this being a code word for India’s ties with the Soviet Union.

William Burr, senior analyst at the National Security Archive, told Haaretz that a large portion of the documents, including ones that allude to the possibility of an Israeli attack on Pakistan, underwent heavy censorship before they were declassified. Therefore, he said, it is impossible to attain additional details about the episode and to measure the seriousness of Israel’s plan to attack the Pakistani arms facilities. The targets of the proposed attack, as well as the way the operation was planned, remain unclear.

Burr said that the National Security Archive has appealed the decision to censor these materials, and expressed hope that some of the still classified documents will be released in the future.

According to reports, Israel and India collaborated in the 1970s, and intelligence and military officials from the two countries considered secret plans for a pre-emptive strike against Pakistan to prevent it from attaining nuclear arms.

^^^ SEE FOR YOURSELVES!!! See if they can do it now 😎 so we know USA, Israel and India were all involved in the conspiracy, Peres lied on the face of Pak public when interviewed by Pak private Channel….After shaheen 2 Test, Our nukes are Safer than ever.

Originally posted by SabreAce
Can any pakistani try to answer these without bringing the usual india paranoia and BS?

1. Will the Shaheen-2 supplant the Ghauri in Pakistani Service?
2. Is this an attempt to show that the BM development will continue despite the lead scientist whose products such as the Ghauri equip pakistan, being dishonoured?

I don’t think that the white shaheen is the correct video and looks more like the Shaheen-1. I chanced to encounter the green one being test fired somewhere else..

1. Maybe, depends what the target is and what are the conditions, Ghauri will still go on until Shaheen is inducted by the army. It will take 1.5 years atleast to finalize and improve the parametres.

2.BM and Nukes are two different projects. There is no such attempyt to kick out Mr.Khan’s Products, What we have done is developed a superior product thanks to the experience gained from Mr. Khan.

let me quote this:

‘ Commenting on the test, defence experts in Washington said it was a display of Pakistan’s adherence to the theory of nuclear deterrence in South Asia. Robert Einhorn, a senior adviser for international security at Washington’s Center for Strategic and International Studies, believes the test was “completely independent of the controversy involving Pakistani scientists who exported nuclear materials to Iran, Libya and North Korea.” ‘

As paint controversy, what can i say lol, next time you’ll say they used a different type=face to write ‘ Shaheen II’ and so its not Shaheen.

Groo…Ghauri is not a failed project, its inferior to shaheen, doesnt makes it a failed project..according to your logic, f-16,f-15, mirage2000 are failed projects also..so think and dont speculate about the GDP stuff…I know there are peeps who claim it be as high as 8-10%, what can we do, Pakistan has had the highest level of freedom of speech since Mushy, I think he is the best dictator in the world.

Check this out Groo 😛
http://www.dawn.com/2004/03/10/top6.htm
ISLAMABAD, March 9: The Pakistan Ordnance Factories (POF) plans to manufacture items of commercial use to diversify its activities to achieve capacity utilization to offset budgetary constraints for defence requirement.

POF Chairman Maj-Gen Mohammad Javed told a news briefing here on Tuesday that the objective of the decision was to earn more to contribute positively to the defence budget to offset budgetary constraints.

POF’s exports at about $40 million were highest about three years back mainly because of supplies to Sri Lanka but had come down to “very low and not worth mentioning” since then, he said.

Since defence budgets were going to be frozen or reduced in the future, he said, POF would be paying for itself and might even contribute to other defence needs through this move.

The POF chief, who joined the country’s premier defence production organization recently, said the POF had a lot of spare terminal capacity which could be used for producing commercial items.

For example, he said, the POF could use its capacity for oxygen and gas cylinders’ production which had a commercial use in the market. Defence production capacity, he further said, was developed for difficult times but this capacity had to be retained through commercial use so as to face any emergency situation in future.

The POF was fully geared to supply arms and ammunitions to the armed forces for all times to come according to their requirements, he said, but progress would also be made towards more and more value addition, through reverse engineering.

Asked whether there was any specific decision or government directive to freeze or reduce the defence budget, he replied in the negative, but said it was the general view that defence budget should not go beyond a certain limit “and it is a dividend of peace”.

The POF chief said another view was that the development budget should get a share higher than the defence. When told that budget utilization even during the first six months of the current fiscal year was about 55 per cent against 35 per cent utilization of the development budget, he said the reason was that a major chunk of the defence budget was consumed by pays and allowances.

This, he added, could not be termed as an imbalance because the nation had to maintain a defensive parity and on the other hand improve the system of spending.

Responding to a question about defence collaboration with the Nato countries, Maj-Gen Javed said there was not much progress on that front because Nato was not forthcoming although there might be some contacts by individual countries.

Answering another question about collaboration with Turkey, he said that too did not go beyond discussions because both were producing similar products.

Pakistan’s focus, he went on to say, would continue to be Gulf countries for defence exports and strengthen their existing facilities that could not be measured in terms of export quantity or earnings because it was a great diplomatic windfall.

“The United Arab Emirates, Saudi Arabia and Bahrain are few examples in this regard.” POF’s major exports, he said, related to arms and ammunitions, including tanks and artillery.

The POF chief was of the view that sale of arms and ammunitions was very difficult in the current situation because the world market was “depressed, mono polized and captured”.

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Ok one more thing, if indians dont want india being included here, they better stick to the topic, aviod sarcasm and Flame taunts. Else i’ll be going doing the same on other threads. Respect others and you’ll get respect.

I doubt that Indian Gov. is willing to risk some 200-300 lives of its pilots just for 50 million dollars.

i think some people are getting confused, as i understand, the triggering malfunction is not related to the R-73 stuff, i think reporter is just filling up things from here and there, they do this all the time, CNN always mentions kashmir and that missile comparison pic of theres in many indo-pak stories, it fills up the report by 2-3 more paras.

Lets just hope its has nothing to do with the age of mig-21s.

Well, many ppl in Pakistan feared once Afghanistan was secured by Soviets, Pakistan would be next. Logically it made sense, Pakistan was the only American ally in the region, knocing it off meant South Asia was all for soviet. India and Iran were in the camp, afghanistan and then Pakistan. Pakistan Castled before Soviets could checkmate it.