phrozenflamelets see when webby deletes this post, dunno why he likes wasting bandwidth
phrozenflamedid you guys notice that actually sharmaji is the one comparing fc-1 to f-22s, su-30mki etc… thats what he syas in every post and says Pakistanis saying that, lol, next thing i’ll be saying indians comparing LCA to F-22 rofl…oh..after that it would be LCA vs typhoon…and the bed time story keeps going and going and going and going, sharmaji, go study economics, thats what u’r good at?? or even that was a lie? :rolleyes:
phrozenflameOriginally posted by SabreAce
Well the pakistanis think that the FC-1 is as good as the F-22 and the SD-10 is the world’s best missile so it must naturally be superior.
See those kind of stupid remarks by stupid ppl create problems here, we dont compare it with f-22, nor sd-10 is said to be the best, its you and your stupid mentallity, its not your fault really, when the environment in which u’r grown up is like that, what can one say.
phrozenflamejust get 200 f-22, then i’ll show everyone three fingers and tell’em to read between the lines :p
phrozenflamei’d have 10 underground bases guarded with S-400s..about 400 of them, and…some phalcons…and the planes would be f-22, f-35..okay we’ll add f-7pgs also, else ppl will say im acting godly.
phrozenflameOriginally posted by flex297
JH-7A rear instrument panel
thats nices ;), We can safely expect J-10 and FC-1 cockpit to be much better than this :rolleyes:
phrozenflameOriginally posted by Indian1973
about as much as tony Blair ?
heh..must be biting his nails about David kelly report…
phrozenflameguys..seriously how long do you thing Japanese are going to hang on to Americans……?
phrozenflamealso i’d say to fellow Pakistanis and Chinese, just ignore someone who has nothing to add but flame, let them satisfy there inferiority complex..if we reply..its makes the problem even worse, so dont bother.
phrozenflameOriginally posted by flex297
It does not really matter, if the C-NITE Cobras are able to match Mi-35, if JF-17 is able to match Su-30MKI.. PAF dude, you are a big nation of 80 million but you are trying to beat a mass of some 1.1 billion Indians. That is a 14 times bigger number. Are you insane or what? In case India mobilised their forces they would roll you over even if Indian Army were equipped only with baseball caps..I can imagine that a 50 mil. nation with extremely poweful economics could try to match up with a mass like India (let us say France or Britain), but Pakistan with its yearly GNP of hardly 400 dollars [FY 1995] and almost absolute dependancy on weapons import? Come on, that is ridiculous…
Your country could have been far better developed if you finally gave up this war-mongering non-sense and tryu to concentrate your funds into civil engineering and industry. I hate to disappoint you, but the only reason why Pakistan still exists is international politics, not the *almighty* PAF and Army. And it will go on of exactly the same reasons.
Since I am absolutely not involved in this conflict and live a half-world away from you, take this as a piece of advice.
Fisrt of all..we dont ‘need’ nor want to ‘defeat’ india. Pakistani Armed Forces have been always about defending from superior Indian Attacks (which history prooves), As far as ‘only’ indian army is concerned atm, its in bad shape in quality when it comes to Tank fleet. The most modern thing you have is what..300 or so T-90s, PA has T-80 UDs to counter them, plus Al-Khalids, which will be helluva problem to aim in desert, and than you have the masses of Al-Zarar, which itself is more than enough for t-72s, dont talk about Army, this is the field india stll needs to catch upto Pakistan.
then you say – ‘and almost absolute dependancy on weapons import? Come on, that is ridiculous…’
*duh* , yeup thats ridiculous, who’se buyin more stuff lately??? (me looks here and there), money isnt a problem, I know Indians have been told that Pakistan is a bankrupt country, just like North korean dictator tell to its ppl how poor shap west is in.
Yeah your economy is much bigger than ours, no doubt, so is ur population, atm yes Pak is lagging behind, but the figures do not show much of the significant difference.
‘Your country could have been far better developed if you finally gave up this war-mongering non-sense and tryu to concentrate your funds into civil engineering and industry. I hate to disappoint you, but the only reason why Pakistan still exists is international politics, not the *almighty* PAF and Army. ‘
^^^ Proves the point Indians still consider Pakistan the part of ‘akhund bharat’ , when was the last time you tried to erase the existence of Pakistan?? 1965…lol, than when did you dare again?? in a middle of bloody civil war.
‘Since I am absolutely not involved in this conflict and live a half-world away from you, take this as a piece of advice.’
Okay than what are you doing here anyway posting a purely flame post which has nothing to do with the post, it wont be long before you’ll be getting peices of advices from Webmaster. and take that as a piece of advice.
Back to the topic:
…you guys are missing a big point…The USA is providing the choppers not for PA to fight IA, but to fight the damn terrorists on the easter border
So they’ll be equipped for that role, not to bust rusty old t-72s.
phrozenflameOriginally posted by SD-10
The above report is now old. China has now made rapid strides in missle technolgy like the new HN-4 4000KM cruise missle and new 400KM Anti-ship missle for Fighters. The best in the World.
name the missiles plz!!
phrozenflameOriginally posted by SOC
The MTCR doesn’t arbitrarily ban sales of weapons with a range of over 300km.
i thought MTCR was only for ballistic missiles?
Just a question..has any country actually cancelled a major sale due to MTCR?
phrozenflameOriginally posted by Wolverine
yaaaaaaawn………………………..
and again the infamous sources for the FC1 development happen to be the sister’s girfriend’s aunt’s butler’s lesbian girl friend’s cook’s dog’s food supplier’s uncle in the PAF.its funny how the first prototypes have no FBW and then all of a sudden the nxt two prototypes have a full digital FBW. oh and the aircraft will become operation in the next three years and this also after the next in line prototyps have a digi fbw. pakistani egns must be genious to be able to do this so quickly. ofcourse then there are the composites. the earlier prototypes didnt have them but the next ones will. now why didnt the rest of the world ollow the FC1 example and ad such critical technologies in mid testing phase instead of before the prototypes were assembled? comopistes may hange drag coefficients, CG, wing properties, air flow properties but hell who cares. its PAF right? all this with a digital fbw will be made operational by 2006-2008. great going.
ofcourse then there are those pics of FC1 manouvering which according to some people here was enough t classify FC1 much more manouverable than LCA. but tose wer ehte first two prototypes now werent they? so why was the whole pakdef gang wagging its d**k at the thought of those two prototypes having a fbw? it as very much possible back then ofcourse. truly pathetic. and ofcouse the composites.
if i remember correctly most of you went on to degrade composites and about how they are not good and not cheap to maintain. the resin comes of, they dont last, shatter blah blah blah. in other words PAF did the right thing by buying an all metal aircraft because it was not in its budget or expertise to maintain them. now ofcourse this has become a matter of common sense. you guys should get an award for that one.
and the ame people who laim that the balance of air power is readressed in the region due to PAF getting 50 mig21 clones to counter MKI are saying this. frankly if its those AF people that your friend met then they ont understand jack about how you make an aircraft. are they feeding you bull? or is your friend feeding you bull? do you even understand the problems with inducing composites in the in testing phase of an aircraft? do you know what goes on when feilding composites to an aircraft? or you may just end up altering the entire aerodynamics of the aircraft. and ofcourse this will happen with a digital fbw (which takes about 5-10 yrs for othrs countries to hardwire) and all the avionics which hve still not been finalised. all this is supposed to happen by 2006-8 too? mazing. you people must have some brains working for you at PAC. good luck with you childish fantasies.
u’r first line of second paragraph was wrong, dint even bother read the next bulky difficult to read paragraph. Fc-1 does have FBW, its on pitch only. And ya dude you can argue here but no need to bring porno language, some of your mates are still immature (HINT HINT _:p ) You can stick with your LCA which will roll out in 2008+ (and that was according to Indian Sources).
Nowadays there are simulators, China already has tested composites on other aircrafts, so little chances they’ll start cracking up etc,most of the things which will be incorporated in future are already being tested and matured. Most of the things will be done on advances simulators, China’s manufacturing industry isnt the same it was 5-6 years ago, In Tecnhological terms, its next to Japanese and South Korean, its about time you absorb that.
As for the sources in first para, they came directly from PAF men,
Well…why dont you read the post yourself:
http://www.pakdef.info/forum/showthread.php?t=4905
and plz realize and difference between speculation and reality, the PAF men said they had chose the avionics, the other person is just speculating which ones (i.e. Usman) ..so whats wrong in speculation?? I bet even you speculate alot.
phrozenflameOriginally posted by SabreAce
Guys, if you don’t mind me saying, please stop making up more rumors and BS. The information on simulators was given out officially through a newsreport but these H-2, composites and RDY tales are not gonna help.I’d also like to point out to the Usman guy that the RD-93 does not smoke, like the latest versions of that engine. It’s the RD-33 which had a problem with smokiness and I thought that it was the RD-93 which was in the FC-1? I’ve also never seen any example of “special” fuel cancelling out smokiness.
Yes Rd-93 is used on JF-17, As for feul yes, There are feul which cause smoke and there are ones which dont.
phrozenflameRe: A lesson on how to construct SUPER FIGHTERS
Originally posted by kya bidu
We are privileged to witness the creation of fantasy based on speculation right here on this thread.First we are treated to an interview of the PAF chief as posted by PLA.
As far as I can see the the interview states the following very clearly my comments in italics:-
1. The radar for the FC1 has been chosen by the PAF. The PAF chief declined to mention the name of the actual radar but since the chief says it has been chosen, we can at-least believe the PAF has narrowed down the choice. However it was the interviewer who has guessed the radar to be either the grifo or the M2K radar. It is the interviewer who has made the statement not the PAF chief. Myth 1
2. A lot of companies are in the race to supply avionics for the FC1. The PAF now has a lot of choices, and one of those choices is the availability of the Helmet mounted Display system.
3. Regarding the engines and the statement by the PAF chief. Fuels don’t make engines smoky, engine design makes engines smoky. Therefore I am disinclined to believe the PAF chief a veteran of flying and certainly very knowledgeable about engine characteristics would ever make a statement that NATO standard fuels would cure the problem. Perhaps this has been added on by the interviewer? Myth 2
4. No pictures of the 3rd prototype (under construction) was provided.
5. Test flying hours to be provided later.
6. The FC1 will have 3 MFDs + 2 displays for RWR.
7. The FC1 will include composites at some later stage. This point has not been specified by the PAF chief specifically, therefore we can infer that the FC1 does not have composites right now
8. Weapon deals were not finalized at the time of the interview and would be finalized within a month. Here the reporter adds that he observed various models of AA and AG weapons including the Darter on the PAF chiefs side of the table. Thereby implying these weapons were finalized. Myth 3
9. The J10 may be procured for the PAF.
10. A full fleged ECM suite will be installed.
Here ends the PAF air chiefs interview. As far as I can see the PAF chief has not made any statement inconsistent with the development of a new fighter. -> radar to be selceted -> ECM will be installed -> composites to be included at some later stage etc… But we have already witnessed the clever creation of 3 myths which are conclusions of the reporter not statements made by the air chief. These are now already facts with those who deparately want to believe and will be quoted as the absolute truth by referenciing the PAF chiefs interview. A clever mix of fact and fiction which if deconstructed clearly shows the PAF chiefs words were taken and mixed up with the reporters conclusions and all of it presented as fact.
NOW WE MOVE TO SOME CREATIVE WRITING BY MAVAUSTIN.
He starts with building credibility for his creativity by connecting himself with the interviewer and the PAF chief. He then egotistically mentions that he has already said these things before the interviewer.
Let move on to the myth creation parts, after connecting himself with the PAF chief and a report which can be taken as truth, he start with:-
1. The ECM and ECCM will be French and integrated with the helmet and MFDs. The PAF chief only mentioned that a full ECM suite will be installed. mavaustin has gone a bit further and added his own unsubstantiated statements by using the PAF chiefs words as a basis therefore creating Myth 4
2. The Helmet is not for targetting but only to present information. It is created out of some composite material. The composite part is unsubstantiated by the PAF chief and mavaustins Myth 5
3. The difference between the JF17 and the FC1 is the use of composites. errr… the PAF chief mentioned composites would be used later, mavaustin has made SA composites an ubsubstantiated fact and thereby created Myth 6
4. Various companies collaborating on the project are mentioned. A SA company is being used to funnel US and SA technology for the JF17. Myth 7
4 issues taken up by mavaustin and 4 myths created by the clever use of association to an interview already blemished by the original reporters myth creation.
This is the funniest Myth if it was not so pathetic.
This one is based on the fact the PAF chief mentioned an HMD may be available, which mavaustin turned into a reality with Myth 5 and then PLA goes on to create Myth 8 by stating Well then the HMS system is the as the idea for JSF HMS. You just can look around and still see the avionics. They even are making an option to actually look through the aircraft… So the pilot is not blinded by some non visible parts… Superb.
Suddenly the HMD system is like the JSF system with the same capabilities as that system. Now according to Myth 8 the JSF has some capabilities like the JSF! All built the shaky foundation of a statement of the PAF chief that an HMD is available, he did not state it was decided but available. LOL
phrozenflame also starts attempting to establish his credibility by stating that he has already mentioned all of the above hotch-potch of fact and fiction. Then he goes on to say:-
1. There will be a transfer of technology for every part of the FC1.
2. The production models of the FC1 will feature full digital FBW. Which is exactly what we were discussing a few posts back. FBW is not plug and play and physical evidence does prove FBW does not exist on the FC1 as of right now. So which production models will have full digital FBW are not mentioned by him. Certainly the models allegedly to be in service by 2006 cannot because that testing has to be done right now and evidently the photos of the currently test models certainly do not have FBW.Myth 9
3. The entire avionics package will not come from one company.
So there we have it based on an unprofessional interview we now have a Mythical FC1/JF17 which by implication and creative thinking:
Myth 1: Already has a radar deal finalised
Myth 2: Has an engine finalised
Myth 3: Has the AA and AG weapons finalised
Myth 4: An French ECM/ECCM finalised
Myth 5: An HMD finalised
Myth 6: Constructed of composites as opposed to the FC1 which does not have composites
Myth 7: Will have input of US and SA technology
Myth 8: Equivalent to the JSF in some aspects
Myth 9: will have production models with FBW controlsThat concludes our lesson for today on how to build up mythical Super Fighters based on 20% reality and 80% fiction.
Lol lol, ya ya we know..when the first pictures came out…all of you guys jumped on it..a photoshoped mythical flying Pokemon, you can sit right on your chair and let the truth unfold over the period of time, in the end we’ll know whose right and whose false..but one thing is certain..Usman is more realistic than you are.
Dont talk about our credibility, its better than you’rs unexisting one.
As for H-4, H-2 which you mentioned are also a myth, let me tell you they were reported on DAWN, the most credible and most read English news paper in Pakistan. Saying that I dont even feel like replying point by point to your mythical post oh mythical one, you’r jsut playing a kind of word game which will likely escalate to flame war, your points taken, happy now lol?
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