Erez has Israel recognised Palestine with free borders, air , sea and land in their control?

I understand that you don’t believe it yourself, but the reason it didn’t come up until now is the fact that there is one Israeli family in the Galilie who doesn’t sleep at night for the last ten days. Everybody realizes that this kidnapping is very real.

There are millions in Gaza who cant sleep every night. Shocking you failed to see that. 1 Israeli family cannot be compared to entire population of Gaza, atleast not from a sane person like you Erez.

Both parties of the Cold War Era must have ‘planned’ Nuke Attacks, its simple and logical and if one side didnt, then they were stupid and idiots and there generals ought to be driven on the back of the donkeys on the streets of their capitals with their faces covered in shoe polish.

Some time back I had posted a news on M2K upgrade where MICA was mentioned , Ofcourse whats the point in going for a Dash-5 upgrade without its main AAm the MICA.

The Derby as BVR dosent take you any where its terribly short on Range , around ~ 30 Km compared to MICA’s 60 ~ 70 km

AFAIK The cost of the Homing head tends to be the most expensive part on the missile , costing as much as 60 percent of the entire missile electronics.

Hence the assumption that a ARH missile would be expensive than a command guided one is correct

I was under the impression that Derby’s range was classified…

😀 😀 😀 😀 . Sorry sealord but that just cracked me up :diablo:

Yeup, hehe, You dont have to be Pakistani to disagree with certain Indians 😉

they have MKIs why would they invest in a much less capable aircraft???

MKI costs more than 60 million dollars a unit…and they dont want to put all eggs in one basket.

oh yea? Last I checked, your president lied to you and the world regarding nukes

Who said anything about nukes?

oh…George W. Bush, President, of your Country. 🙂

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/07/22/politics/main564585.shtml

oh and the lies exposed in the same news item as well 🙂

WMD can mean any number of highly destructive chemical, biological, or nuclear weapons. Perhaps you’ll remember that very long period of time where the U.N. was repeatedly denied access to inspect Iraq’s “special areas of interest”. The constant delays and the purposeful evasion of inspection by Saddam over the years……do you honestly believe there was no threat posed by him to at least the neighboring countries? He invaded another country in 1990 if you’ll remember. Who’s to say he wouldn’t have threatened someone else in the region….namely the Israelis? Remember Resolution 1441?

I think the Chief Inspector of UN has different opinion than your speculations…(which are quoted above and below)..
Read this:
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0305-01.htm
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2004-03-02-un-wmd_x.htm

Oh and they also mention some points which you have mentioned, why argue with the facts?

Yes he invaded in 1990, who is talking about the Gulf War of 1990, we have a dispute over this recent one, and America..could have gone and you know kicked Saddam that time, it caused a Shiite Uprising in South, where people hoped Americans will come to Rescue, No Abrams came, it was the the T series.

Rest is all your speculation and wishfull thinking to hide the evil of your government.

In short Saddam refused to comply, and he blatantly defied what was written in that resolution? The United States and England (as well as some other nations) decided that this will not be tolerated and Saddam will pay for that with the loss of his regime and a change of power in Iraq. This action had to be taken to ensure that Iraq wouldn’t have the chance to post a threat to the region any longer.

Saddam’s Army was in no state to pose a threat to anyone. Since you mentioned Defiance of UN Resolutions and Israel in the same thread, why double standards for Israel? Why are they allowed to defy all internation law?

Saddam had years to do whatever he wanted with the weapons, and unfortunately we will likely never know the location of those that were produced. We know he had such weapons because he had used them in smaller doses against the Kurds (i.e. some of his own people) on numerous occassions. Trying to tell me that the weapons weren’t there because we didn’t find huge stockpiles of them right away is not going to fly. Hussein had more than enough time to conceal or otherwise get rid (i.e. transport out of the country) of anything that would have been a violation of U.N. Resolutions. STOP DEFENDING WHAT HE DID in your attempts to make America look bad.

More speculation and assumptions…you cant fill the gaps and holes with your own fantasies. Offcourse the West knew he had chemcial weapons before, not becuase he used it on Kurds, but becuase western governments provided it to him and some other govts too.

Go here: http://web.amnesty.org/pages/ttt4-article_7-eng

“”British firms sold thousands of kilos of the basic ingredients of nerve and mustard gas to Iraq and Iran last year, the Department of Trade confirmed yesterday… the Department’s figures show that 2,000 kilograms of methyl phosphonyl difluoride has been exported to Iraq. This is the basic ingredient of the nerve gas Sarin… British firms also sold 38,000 kilograms of dimethyl methylphosphonate and other Sarin ingredients to Iraq.”
Andrew Beitch, The Guardian, 6 April 1984

And stop pointing at me and trying to emhpasize to others that im trying to defend the actions of Saddam, keep your tricks to yourself…Two wrongs wont make it right… Why should I defend Saddam when I hate him as much as you do…only difference is that I dont like your president either …and so what..majority of Americans dont like him too, go figure..and for the THIRD TIME…you are just seeings things in BLACK AND WHITE..This is not Star wars…either Sith lord or Jedi Knight, come out of hollywood and you’ll see the grey.

I just dont like the idea f how it is being done.

So alternatively I guess Saddam remains in power and the Iraqi people continue to suffer and die by the thousands every year while pigs like Saddam and his sons continue to rule and do whatever they please to or with whomever they please. Sounds like a great future for Iraq to me……….

Well, you missed the point when Saddam was armed by your government ;)…you in USAF must know more about it than me ;). Good idea is not to create strong dictators so in the end you have to get rid of them in a bloody way. That was my point.

No one is discrediting American Government, there isnt any credit left anyway…so nothing to worry about.

fFirst and only provocation Israel did – it clamed Jewish state in 1948 and what happened next? All arab nations started war with Israel till all jews will be in the sea

What else do you expect? the Arabs will sit and lay eggs while their brothers are being thrown out and their homes being burnt down and their lands being stolen….why? Becuase Hitler went mad and someone remembered his great great grand daddy lived there 5000 years ago….if you look at things….Not the fault of Arabs…..More Palestinians have been thrown out than Jews, while What Arabs say about throwng out Israeli remains a rhetoric, The Israel has ACTUALLY DONE THAT….So the fact on the ground is an opposite of Arab rhetoric.

Hamaes doesnt has a clean record, so does IDF..
http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,1643573,00.html

That doesnt means you can blame everything on Israel, the way Arabs have handeled all this situation makes me laugh to be honest.

As far as Palestinians are concerend..for them to exist is to resist.

bad politicians + bad politicians = complex mess you can find in Middle East.

Heh Pakistan India situation is alot more hopefull.

If we had gone into Iraq to steal the oil, then we’d be in complete control of Iraq’s oil reserves, and there wouldn’t likely be any form of government.

Now Iraq has the government finally, becuase Americans didnt like any previous candidate, they finally found the yes-man, hence the government.

[quote]
The points that Impi made about the deaths of Iraqi civilians are also quite true. Saddam’s regime was murderous and the people of Iraq were never truly safe because if, on a whim, Saddam had decreed that someone was going to die, then that person (or family) was executed….it’s a simple as that. Additionally, the goal of the invasion was not to kill Iraqi civilians. Collateral damage is a part of war and unintentional deaths have occured, but it is important to remember that the insurgency is responsible for the largest portion of civilian casualties by far. The people in the insurgency supported Saddam and they don’t care who they harm in trying to get Coalition troops out of the country. Unfortunately, this means that many thousands of civilians have died.
[quote]

Since when did America started caring about the civilians of other countries? Wasnt Saddam was once given millitary aid [That included Chemcial and Biologicial Weapon know-how from Britain] How many dictators are their supported by America? What about the civilians of those countries? Dont tell me Afghanistan, they didnt gave a damn until they realised Made in America Osama has gone totally rogue.

The goal of the invasion was to get Saddam out of power and setup a stable democratic government so that the people of Iraq can have a future and despite the struggles in the country now, they are closer to having a good future than they ever were under Saddam, and as Impi said, under Saddam, they would never have any chance to succeed.

oh yea? Last I checked, your president lied to you and the world regarding nukes and I dont know some martian weapons Saddam would use to threaten its neighbours and blow up whitehouse. Saddam wasnt the issue, just a face-saver for Bush to tell after his initial lies were exposed…first thing Americans did when the baghded fell….go rush to Oil ministry…not care about those treasures of human history that was being looted openly…so much for ‘caring’.
Obviously the people have no chance to succeed under Saddam, being sanctioned by the west and a War monger whose passion for violence was feuled by the west, all long term planning 😉

You can say all day that we are in Iraq for the oil, but at the end of the day that’s simply not the truth. Playing the devil’s advocate is one thing, but saying that oil is what we were after is a lie. If we were there for oil I can promise you, it would all be flowing straight back to the United States right now. That’s not the case.

So America spent 100s of billions of dollars just to topple Saddam? Whats there for America, you tell me…if it was democracy, there are far more worse leaders than Saddam ruling today…I dont see the logic for democracy and ‘caring about people’…..when people like Mugabe have just made the lifesof locals miserable, who jail up opposition leaders under the cry of ‘treason’ but luckily for Mugabe, he doesnt have much oil :-/

Whats there for America is Oil, which is money. Thats a good logic for war for a Captialist regime. Was just reading ‘Death of a Salesman’…

Most you don’t like the United States and I’ve got no problem with that, but that shouldn’t lead you to make false conclusions about the war in Iraq and why we invaded.

I’m sorry to say thats its again, just your assumption that I dont like USA, again you speak in black and white…like extremists…disagreeing with a war and doesnt makes me hate your governemnt..

And to say it matter of factly, majority of your own countrymen arent happy with your president, dont you worry about me.

Yes, I dont like your government, and that also certain people in it, so what? that doesnt make me hate your country man, thats just extreme bull. USA is among the countries whose people I respect due to certain qualities. Not what you are saying.

That country will have a future once things settle down. There are Iraqi citizens that are glad Saddam is gone, and they want the chance to live in a civil, free, democratic society. If you don’t want them to be able to have that, then there is something very wrong with you.

Whatever happened to your this statement back in 80s. Yes I wish the people can live a better life. They have already seen more violence on the streets in 1-2 years then they have witnessed in all Saddam era combined and multiplied by 2. And I hope they have a future now, they certainly do with American liked government there now. I just dont like the idea f how it is being done.

Oh and you dont have to promise me anything 🙂 You keep on promising to everyone 😉

And when I say Americans, I mean the Government.