I don’t think anyone is guaranteeing that the movie will be good. There are just a couple of people trying to defend the use of CGI as a tool in the face of others trying to argue that ‘because it’s CGI it’s crap’. It seems to be pointless to try to explain the CGI approach to people who say “I know boats” and then close their minds off to other opinions. Will the film depict the people, aircraft and history correctly? Not likely. All we are asking for is an intelligent discussion on some specific points, not the ‘I’m intelligent and you are less-so’ approach.
I have been defending the use of CGI, that’s all. Will the film be overly Hollywood-ised for most of our tastes? Probably. There appear to be glaring inconsistencies with markings and aircraft type. I wish they were more thoughtful about this. But perhaps they wanted to use existing footage? If so, why not just start from scratch and create an original film with more accurate schemes?
It will not be a perfectly historically accurate film. I think we all agree on that. If that bothers any of you, then don’t insult yourself by watching it. If you want to see a highly detailed action film portraying the aircraft we, in this forum, all love, then go and enjoy it.
If you can explain away things to yourself, then great. If you can not, then don’t. No-one will care either way!
If your standards are higher than the efforts made by the film, then don’t go and see it.
Enough ‘real’ aeroplanes in Australia to make watching and playing with them viable, in my experience. And a lot more worthwhile as a learning experience, not to mention fun with an edge. The four days on the recent RAAF Pilgrimage was worth miles more than anything I’ve seen recently-made for the silver screen.
It’s alright JDK, I was just kidding! 😀 I too much prefer the real thing!
My only issue was in people making a judgement on the quality of a film based on a very short trailer, calling the visuals ‘rubbish’ etc. Sure, some films are shockers, but it’s more in the story telling than the imagery, I believe. The “Iron Eagle” series used real planes, but have you seen the one with ‘warbirds’? Iron Eagle IV I think… Hilarious!
James, Andy’s been too polite to tell you, but you’re talking pure clart. Clart defending clart. Linrey, it’s clart, watch some real aeroplanes before trying to defend clart.
I’m sure that someone with more patience for your clart will have the time to explain the term to you.
Wow. I have never thought of it that way! Thankyou so much! Your arguments form perfect, crystal-clear droplets of wisdom!
Real aeroplanes you say? That’s a good thought! Hmm… we don’t have many aeroplanes here in the colony, but I’ve flown plenty of real planes on those fangled computer simulators, so I’m sure I know what Im talking about. 😉
After making a statement like that, I might question if you’ve ever watched a real aeroplane fly.
Gee, don’t get so worked up! I am a member of this forum because I have an interest in WWII aircraft. Of course I have seen them fly. Why be so insulting as to suggest that I know nothing?
Some people are saying they don’t like the CGI. What do you SPECIFICALLY dislike?
Here’s some issues: Me 262 roll rate: this looked overdone; P-51 ‘turning on a dime’ prior to the 262 destruction scene.
Lets think about it critically:
This is a movie trailer. Trailers often include scenes which are different in the actual movie, and perhaps these scenes were sped up to fit in with the feel of the trailer. We will have to wait and see how the movie really turns out.
Most of the sequences looked very believable to me (yes, I have seen real planes fly, I don’t need to have to have sat back seat during aerobatics to have a clue). Many scenes are done as if they were filmed from a stable platform like a camera-ship; some scenes looked like they were done from a wingman or chase plane position; and some were artistic shots, namely the P-52 ‘turning on a dime’, but consider this:- Picture a plane performing a manoeuvre. Now imagine a camera ‘floating’ in space around the plane, facing in a fixed position. What will it look like? As if the plane is ‘turning on a dime’? This is, I believe, what we are seeing. The director is experimenting with CGI as an artform. Does it work? We will have to wait and see the full scene in the movie.
What are the specifics which make the CGI look “Rubbish”?
Ok DazDaMan, fair enough. I haven’t seen all the aviation-themed movies out there, so I’m sure there are those that push the boundaries of reality to make a movie look ‘cooler’. As for the trailer in question, it IS very fast paced (as trailers often are), so I agree with your previous post, hopefully the movie itself is more realistic.
Wow. Just wow. Some of you guys think you are experts on aviation, cinematography, digital animation… Compare the clip to any live action film. The depth of action is impossible in the real world. Only with CGI can we see hundreds of bombers, dozens of fighters, flak, multiple simultaneous engagements, etc etc.
The guys doing the CGI are experts. They plot all the flight characteristics and paths based on real world factors. SOMETIMES there may be an aesthetic need to change something so that it looks better, but it is an exception, not a rule.
Often, unrealistic looking flight characteristics are due mainly to perception. We are used to seeing fighters move about from the perspective of a fairly static camera platform. With CGI, the camera can move about with no restrictions. The director has the freedom to follow the action how he likes. This will make movements SEEM un-natural, when it is actually the CAMERA that is moving ‘un-realistically’.
Cartoonish? Crisp and detailed maybe, unfamiliar camera movement, sure. Don’t compare it to old style footage, because this is a completely different medium.
Hi Wulfie,
Good work on compiling these lists.
Here are some corrections however:
FN.20 Tail (Lancaster)
1. BBMF In Lanc. (FN.121, not FN.20)
2. RAFM Cosford In Wellington (FN.120, not FN.20)
3. AWM Canberra In Lanc. (FN.120, not FN.20)
4. IWM Duxford In Lanc. (FN.121, not FN.20)
Some additions:
– FN.120 – from Stirling LK488 (unrestored, sometimes appears on ebay)
– FN.120 – City of Norwich Aviation Museum (See this thread from 2006 http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?t=65753)
– FN.20 – SOMEWHERE in UK (I believe in private hands. Was subject to an unauthorised attempted ebay sale a few years ago)
– FN.7 – I hear there is one in a museum in South Africa, and another in the UK? The Stirling guys may know more..
There are also several FN.120/121 (and others?) turrets under private restoration in Canada
A few more from Australia:
In the Australian War Memorial storage facility (Treloar, Canberra):
Boulton Paul
Type C – Currently under restoration (for Hudson in storage)
Type D – Ex-Lincoln, unrestored (?? ID not confirmed..)
Fraser Nash
FN121 – unrestored
Australian War Memorial:
On Lancaster:
FN5 in nose
FN50 upper
FN121 tail
FN5 on separate display. (Possibly ex-Wellington? Described as “tail turret”…)
WA Aviation Heritage Museum, Bull Creek (Western Australia):
On Lancaster:
FN5 in nose
Martin ? upper
FN82 tail
Queensland Air Museum also has a number if unrestored turrets:
Possibly B.P. tail turret (Type D?)
Lincoln upper?
FN121
I am gunuinely baffled why any body would build and 80-90% size flying replica rather than going the extra 10-20% for the full size article?
When talking about scaled objects, we are talking about 3 dimensional objects.
An 8m straight line is fairly close to a 10m line. (80% vs 100%)
8m x 8m square = 64m2 –> 10m x 10m = 100m2. (“80% scale” turns into 64% of the area)
8m x 8m x 8m cube = 512m3 –> 10m x 10m x 10m = 1000m3. (“80% scale” now turns into about 1/2 the volume)
SO. An 80% scale airplane is decided to be fairly close to the real thing, and only at 1/2 the actual size, requiring a far smaller engine and far less materials.
Applying this to 90% scale = about 73% of actual size.
Hope that makes sense!
Hi there,
Have you checked Chorley’s ‘Bomber command Losses’? The Lost Bombers website is based on these books. You’ll find the entry here —>
http://www.lostbombers.co.uk/bomber.php?id=10525
Unfortunately, there’s nothing about the cause of loss..
Good luck with your search!
Is this a clue? It’s the mistyped link in the OP:
He’s just saying that there was a mis-typed link in the original post, which didn’t allow the picture to be shown. He has fixed the link to show the picture that didn’t make it into the first post. 🙂
Thanks Phil, for providing links to these interesting, yet publicly available pictures.
A friend from the Philippines said (10 years ago) that he trained on Mustangs… he can’t be more than 40-45 years old…
Sorry.. Couldn’t help myself.. 😀


Hi. A quick Google turned up this site:-
http://www.cnapg.org/lancaster2.htm
TW871
194? The aircraft was allocated to 49 Squadron, Royal Air Force.
EA-K
194? The aircraft was allocated to 214 Squadron, Royal Air Force.
QN-W