I’m not comparing anything. Prototypes, programs, development processes, skill of designers or whatewer.

My point is simple: JSF program started in 1993, PAK-FA in 2001, kinda 8 years inbetween. So statements like: “there is over 300 F-35 and they are bombing ISIS already, but where is your Sukhoi? Only first one will bi build in 2019? – meh” – is kinda stupid.

By the way, my guess is that serial one would be built one the same line where all the prototypes was built. Only difference is it would built not for testing purposes but for VKS. For pilots training and tactics development.

[ATTACH=JSON]{“data-align”:”none”,”data-size”:”full”,”title”:”3100b93a2b9492002f078c92956f08ee.png”,”data-attachmentid”:3860633}[/ATTACH]
R-33 (left) and R-37 (right)

Somebody had posted this video here, but in another thread: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VARVdpXXh70&t=1413s

Then, which is the problem for we can not see a 100 unit orders contract for Su-57 fighter?

The question is simple for any westerners, and the answer seems as simple, but in fact it is not so. You need to look at the issue from the other sides.

Let’s look at original roadmap of PAK-FA program. The program is out of schedule, but was it looks believable from the beginning? Maybe. The developers clearly did not understand all the aspects of developing 5th gen fighter. It looks like their estimation was based on the experience of developing 4th gen fighters in USSR. The PFI program (Su-27) started in 1971. Delivery to the VVS started in 1984, and officially adopted to service only in 1990. The LFI (MiG-29) is roughly the same story. So 13 years of development plus 1-2 years on top as a buffer = thoughts of the PAK-FA planners. It is also possible that the roadmap was created by somebody on highest level. In this case the developers really could only accept it. Back then it was 1000% better deal than what they have had in 90’s. Otherwise the government could easily decide to buy Rafale, for example (like they bought Mistral ships from France). So pointing to initial schedule as an argument to “PAK-FA is done” is just meh. PAK-FA is “only” 18 years in development, compare it to JSF or ATF, none of 5th gen fighter was developed in such a time limit (exception is J-20 but is it really 5th gen fighter by western standarts?). Even this point is enough to understand why we see no batches of 100’s of Su-57.

Also, i can’t remember any jet ordered in such a quantity by VKS(VVS). Biggest one is 60 of SU-35s, if i’m correct. So why would Su-57 be an exception here?

Over 90% of Russian defense companies is state owned. This means a lot. First, the defence lobby in Russia is kinda weak (unlike in the US). Second, the economy here works in a slightly different way. The Russian gov pays for development, then pays for production and pays for the operation in the end. So rushing production here is the best way to lose more later at production and operation stages. Foreign customers are different story, here all works the same way as everywhere. No a surprise that Russia wants to sell the jet to anybody. For Russia the main assset is the ability to produce 5th gen fighter, not the fighters itself. Also, Russia is capitalist country, even with such untypical defense companies. So, money from abroad is profit – the stuff a capitalists is living for, but money from the gov is like to put cash from one pocket to another.

Another story is the production. Russia still hadn’t lost technological capability to create modern military equipment, but it’s hard to say so about production capability. It’s ok to “handmade” a couple of Su-57 in a year, but full scale production line requires a lot of special machinery. FIghter jet is on top of long production line. Production line that Russia is clearly having problem with. All this sanctions made buying all these mashinery abroad much more difficult if not impossible. Just look at MS-21 story – “harmless” passenger jet.

Sorry for the grammar, some of the cases is beyond my capabilities in English.)))

It’s certainly an immature design compared to F-22 and F-35 – compared to Su-57, who knows?

How do you know all this? That’s right – you don’t.

There is a lot of speculation about J-31, but lack of objective info. We know it made maiden flight two and half years after Su-57. Only two prototypes of J-31 was “shown” to public. It was fitted with RD-33 – decent but clearly 4th gen engine, on the other hand AL-41F1 is a 5th gen engine by all specific parameters exept supercruise and stealth. Even new J-31 prototype is flying with an extended pitot tube in the nose – first characteristic of immature design. It’s kinda obvious that Su-57 is much more finished project than J-31 at the moment.

All the announced J-31 parameters are inferior to MiG-29. Speed, range, ceiling. Not a surprize. It’s carrying a weapon bays that increase weight and size. It has stealth airframe that decreases aerodynamic qualities, but fitted with same engine. Some sources did shown parameters of new engine, like 9000kN wet thrust – marginally better than RD-33MK. It barely would overlaps the drawbacks of airframe design.

Comparison with F-35 just look unnecessary. On one hand – most sophisticated and ambitious joint aviation program, on the other hand – obscure second tier medicore fighter lacking any unique features.

Do you have sources Paralay? To know the year when the currency conversion was done would be important too.

There is a number of reasons why I don’t completely agree on the figures above but would think it is better to see how they were calculated before discussing xD

42$m cost is from the info about 2009 year contract. 66 billion of rubles for 48 fighters. exchange rate was about 32 rubles per 1 USD.

But there is also the contract from 2015. Some sources claims it was about 100 billion, other “over a 60 billion” for 50 fighters. 2015 exchange rate was about 60 rubles. So fighters from the second contract was cheaper: 23-33$m

This “interview” with Marchukov really looks more like just an journalist’s fantasy. None questions asked, few cherry picked quotes, a lot of speculations and vague words from the author. There is nothing in this article to debate about.

Also, i read russian easily.

The Su-57 maybe many things. Yet, I would hardly call it clever??? As a matter of fact it’s pretty much a failure. As Russia’s only partner “India” left the program. Due to cost and “shortcomings” in the design. In addition the development has very slow. Either from extremely limited funding or technical problems. (likely both)

This in turn has pretty much killed any export potential for the type. So, I see it’s prospects as very “grim”….:(

Honestly, in my opinion I see Russia adopting the J-31 at some point in the future. As it real has few if any alternatives.

Your opinion costs nothing because it has zero basis.

You are right that jet called Su-57 may be many things (a failure or a success). But the design, the concept is really clever. It much better balanced and capable than F-22 or 35 (donno about J-20).

Also, India was not partner at any point of time. Indian “dances” about military tenders is well known. FGFA story is just one of them.

J-31 is nothing but a joke atm.

Interesting theory, maybe you should contact the maintainers who work on the engine because the weight was listed twice in articles referring to them. I posted one.

About F135 most sources referring to nothing, or to a tinker.af.mil site which is just not opens in my browser. As for F119 most references goes to RAND paper from 2002 which contains a lot of misinformation about other engines.

But my theory is also doubtful because i’m forgotten, that Al-41F1S is TV engine and it makes the engine heavier. It also fitted with old control system which is also could be much heavier. If this systems weight about 250 kg or more, than 1700 kg looks realistic.