It was just another case of over-claiming. It happened in most combats and with all air forces. It was not neccesarily a matter of lies being told.
Certainly, absolutely 100% there were NO Spitfires lost in this combat.
By the way, I will re-check, but I have Weber getting back to Tangmere and not baling out of the IOW.
Hello’
as to wicks spitfires confirmed” on 6/11/40 hope im right now sorry about 28/11.
well on record Adolf Galland had a french plane unconfirmed may 40.
and wick had was it 1 or 2 swordfish aircraft unconfirmed. plus a shared unit kill on a potez bomber.may 40′ also as I know a blenheim bomber off cherburg early august see Duel of eagles book.wick thinkin a ju 88 by mistake.
then why did wick get these spitfires.on 6/11. then if you say there’s no records on them .
then think of the swordfish planes he claimed .so why didnt the luftwaffe give them to him these swordfish planes.same as these spitfires if he did lied.. or damaged.if no wittness.
think.witness.the luftwaffe were not known for lied false claims not by Rookie pilots less than aces.
terry
How weird is that.
Whilst reading this thread, received a phone call to trailer a Hurricane from Liverpool down to Cornwall tomorrow. Its the last replica from the BoB film (apparently) I guess I will drive up tomorrow and come back with Hurricane on Saturday……………give us a wave!!Baz
talkin of Hurricanes is the Hurricane that crashed of speke still there.
in the mud..
terry
This reminds me of a conversation with an old work colleague who told a story of when he was a kid on holiday in Broadstairs, Kent. He remembers sitting on the beach and watching the aircraft dogfighting overhead, is this not the case ?
I know a number of very knowledgable Battle of Britain movie experts frequent this forum and so can anyone advise ?
some of the filmin was Done in uk.but rest was in spain as i would know i was in the film as a kid.at the end.
terry
Yes i remember that as well.. i think it was ITV’s World of Sport with the legendary Dickie Davies. Very dramatic viewing as i recall.!
GOOD ole’ Dickie Davis. yes thats the show.my memory must be slow i thought it was 1980 march. but.
terry
Have just turned up two shots taken at Duxford on Sep 10 1968. during filming “Batlle of Britain”
CASA 2-111D (code A4-JR)
B-25J (N6578D) film camera ship, sheet over nose to protect camera from sun, removed prior to take off at end of runway.Nighthawk2
some of air fighting was done off spain in june 68, the uk weather was Dismal.
terry
The point is it doesn’t matter whether he claimed three Spitfires, thirty Spitfires or three hundred and three Spitfires. THE RAF LOST NO SPITFIRES ON THAT DATE. Where is the evidence? Show me the wreckage? Did he follow each one down and pinpoint their location?
That then would leave several options none of which you will like.
He claimed Spitfires but shot down Hurricanes.
He believed he had damaged aircraft which survived his attacks.
His record of air victories was filled in incorrectly.
He lied.
You choose.
Regards,
kev35
cheers another note maybe He was tired too.
terry
The point is it doesn’t matter whether he claimed three Spitfires, thirty Spitfires or three hundred and three Spitfires. THE RAF LOST NO SPITFIRES ON THAT DATE. Where is the evidence? Show me the wreckage? Did he follow each one down and pinpoint their location?
That then would leave several options none of which you will like.
He claimed Spitfires but shot down Hurricanes.
He believed he had damaged aircraft which survived his attacks.
His record of air victories was filled in incorrectly.
He lied.
You choose.
Regards,
kev35
cheers I think maybe He was Tired too.
terry
September 1979 Reno Air race final lap……. flown by Steve Hinton
try here.. http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=73217
CHEERS I remember this on a sataday tv sports show.
I remember it crashed on just short on field he belly landed it. also showed him in cockpit.hurt. one lucky guy ………..But guts he had got.
terry
Maverik61.
I think you may be having a problem with understanding the information you are being given.
RAF Fighter Command Losses by Norman L R Franks states that there were NO Spitfires lost on the 6th of November 1940. It does list the loss of four Hurricanes. These are:
145 Squadron Hurricane I P/O J K Haire. V6627. Killed. Patrol. Shot down over the Isle of Wight – baled out too low, pm.
145 Squadron Hurricane I Sgt J Weber. Serial unknown. Safe. Patrol. Baled out after attack by Me109 over the Isle of Wight, PM.
213 Squadron Hurricane I Sgt H M Adair. V7602. Killed Patrol. Shot down over Portsmouth by Me109, pm.
238 Squadron Hurricane I P/O J Tillett. V6814. Killed. Patrol. shot down by Me109 over Fareham, pm.
Further to this, the Commonwealth War Graves Commission lists 34 RAF casualties for the 6th of November 1940. Not one of them came from a unit equipped with Spitfires.
Hope this helps.
Regards,
kev35
cheers
well wick claimed 3 spitfires. as on his record of air victories.on 6/11/40
but as far nobody knows who thats my point.
terry
This was my translation of his account. Slightly different, but the same combat:
“Today we had a terrific time again. We meet a heap of Hurricanes which fly lower than we do. I am just getting ready to attack when I notice something above me and I immediately shout over the intercom “Attention! Spitfires above us!” But they were so far away that I could begin with the attack on the Hurricanes. They were just turning away from their original course and that sealed their fate. Almost simultaneously the four of us fired at their formation. One went on my account. The rest of the Hurricanes moved away, but then pulled up to a higher altitude. During this manoevre I once again caught the one on the right hand side outside. He was done for immediately, and went straight down! Now I can’t say what it was that was the matter with me on this day, November 6. I wasn’t sure if I wasn’t well or if it was my nerves which were about to break. When my second Englishman was lying down below I just wanted to go home.
I would have had enough fuel for a few more minutes, but the urge to go home completely overwhelmed me. Also, to justify myself – if that is at all necessary – there wasn’t much I could do with the few minutes I had left in reserve. As we began to turn away and we are holding the course for home I see below me three Spitfires. I am the first to see them and attack immediately. Already the first one falls! But now I say to myself “Go for the others!” – if I let the other two get away they will probably shoot down my comrades tomorrow!”
well what was the unit involved.with the spits he shot down.
terry
:confused::confused:
So, 6 November?
In which case, and for the sake of clarity (which seems to have gone out of the window!) it was bright and sunny, early afternoon. Unless the Solent was that afternoon stricken by some hitherto unrecorded unique solar and meteorological event of course.
Helmet Wick and his JG2 returned home:
“…..in the bright afternoon sunshine.”
I was tired .
i should have made it clear that post was for 28/11.wicks last flight and not my first post as to 6/11.which i was refere too.
yes sunny.not Dark.
terry
:confused::confused:
So, 6 November?
In which case, and for the sake of clarity (which seems to have gone out of the window!) it was bright and sunny, early afternoon. Unless the Solent was that afternoon stricken by some hitherto unrecorded unique solar and meteorological event of course.
Helmet Wick and his JG2 returned home:
“…..in the bright afternoon sunshine.”
yes thats right.
terry
It must be my age…..when did we suddenly jump to discussing the action of 28th Nov when Wick MIA…:confused:
sorry””
terry
Wicks flights 6/11 – and 28/1140
The action was very early afternoon. I would dispute that it was anywhere near sunset, dusk or getting dark. It was a bright sunny afternoon.
Just seen Firebird’s post. Is someone getting wires crossed here???
Are we discussing 6 November or 28 November?????:confused: Or even the 5th….according to first post in this thread!
For the sake of clarity, I am talking about the action on 6 November 1940 which, I thought, was the topic of interest.
sorry the 6/11/40 ..the POSTS>
I was onto last flight that wick was in by D Dundas as to targets in light.
shot down.that someone said.
I should said Wicks last flight .28/1140.
crosswired.
terry
A bit of a light hearted subject !!…I have often wondered how many photos/film footage exists of pilots flying through hangars.I know it must have featured in a few 20’s/30’s movies (1 for sure,just cannot remember title).
Here is a link about ‘Swede Ralston’ who flew a T6 through the Airship Hangar at Tillamook and rolled inverted to exit upside down,but who was the other pilot to ‘fly through’ at tillamook.http://www.nastillamook.org/faqs/misc/hangarplane.htm
cheers baz
As to flying through hangers one Battle of Britain pilot Dickie Lee killed in the Battle .flew though debans Hangers for a film comedy 1936.
terry