we only retired them last year.

What exactly makes the abrahams the best for AU and our conditions… the fact that you need small gas pumping station every 100km to supply one division?? Our terrain and our conditions require good ol diesel, and Leo2s would be more than adequate, not to mention Chalies 2s. In fact i would argue that we need MBTs at all, only reason Abrahams were purchased is to make it easier to operate with Yanks on overseas deployments.

As for Colins, by the time it became 2x the sub then originally designed, there were 2x Subs in production out there.. and AIP techonollogy slowly came behind the corner. Non the less.. not many diesel subs scored simulated hits against battlegroup carrier and Colins did.. though so did Gotland.

of course a modern force needs tanks…….the best anti-tank weapon is another tank. also to maintain the ability to operate tanks. and if we are engaged in a defensive war on our soil(possible but not likely) the ability to step straight into replacement abrams from the USA is a great help. and the collins class development established the ASC, which is now building AWD’s, and will build the new subs in 2020. all little steps in building our future ability to be self sufficent in military hardware.

australia has a history of purchasing the best and improving it. collins is twice the weapons system that the original design is, as with ASLAV, F-111C, FFGs, R-OTH, steyr, minimi, herstal, FFHs, AWD etc etc. we have the best quantative forces in the world, with some of the best technology. we bought the abrams because its the best. and because once modification to our standars are complete, they will be even better. also provides for easy deployment and reinforcement. if we need more tanks in defence we could get abrams quicker then leo’s, and if we deploy with the USA, we can take over some of there tanks. only thing i dont understand is why we dont have more CH-47s, or dedicated special forces insertion helicopters.

same way they got Mig 21/3/5/7/9’s, Su-27s and Mi-24’s and Mi-8’s-former warsaw pact and soviet republics selling all for hard currency!

This is the same department of defence that payed female soldiers and sailors to have there breasts enlarged to help there ‘self confidence’! If women want to serve they have to be able to take the crap like the men- typical feminazis- they dont question the adult magazines morales, but that of a long serving naval officer??????

Do you? Fact America hated Iran. Fact-against its better judgement, America supplied weapons to Iraqi so they would be used on Iran. Fact-depite numerous intelligence reports stating that there were no weapons, America was 100% sure it did. Fact- an Iraqi general states that the remaining supplies of WMD were smuggled out in buses to syria. Fact-Australian SAS report seeing these convoys, and finding it odd that no passengers were on board.

If america had found any WMD of iraqi or russian construction, they would have been produced doesnt mean none were found- and if america ‘officially’ say nothing is there, the UN will jump at it. And its currently not in americas interest to pursue syria for them. america kept the end user certificates?

Unfortunately for America the reason everyone knows that saddam had WMD’s was because America supplied them. alot of things that shouldn’t have been done to get back at Iran! and if you believe an retired Iraqi general and the Australian SAS, they were transported in buses to syria.

Scooter, we will never be able to convince the pro chinese supporters-likely that they include members of the MSS, and to agree with us would be treason. probably printout our posts and show them around saying “look-the west hates us and will fund japanese and korean carriers-quick, build more”

fact is, no matter what you say china will not have 2 new carriers in 6 years. they are likely to be Varyag rip offs. they wont pose much of a threat.I’m sure the RAN couls spare a Collins class or two to deal with them.
they arenot that big a deal If china wnts to waste its money trying to compete with the US navy, let them- all the more sooner that the Taiwanese will be seen as the way and democracy will see the end of communism. just like russia

Unfortunately, until the palestinians realise they aren’t going to acheive anything by attacking Israel this pointless killing will continue. Israel is there forever. deal withit! it is 1% of middle eastern land mass- egypt and jordan and turkey all have good relations with Israel- why cant palestine? then blockades will lift and things will calm down- but i suspect as long as palestine is a terrorist state( commiting terrorist attacks under authority from its government-HAMAS,which is a UN listed terrorist organisation!) there will be no peace!!!:(:mad: