Don’t know how they liked the Mirage 5SDE, and how it performed� But I know they where happy when they could buy western stuff.
They didn’t liked their experience of Russian ( ok, Soviet ) advisors , trainings , “help” , and some of the equipments� (well the AK is ok�)

Indeed the Egypt could always buy equipments from Western countries and at least from France it were possible as the example of the Mirage 5, even when it received almost all equipments from the Soviet Union . The Egypt had never been a satellite from Soviet Union even during the 60′ or the 70’s.

The reason of Egypt received few MiG 23 in the 70’s were because its had turned away from the Soviet Union. As the US had managed to convince Israel to return the Sinai without a new war, as well as Egypt has been obtained an US military aid after this Camp David agreement that remains until the present day.

The Egypt had been wanted to buy the MiG 25RB in the early 70’s, however because of the refusal from Soviet Union to sell the MiG 25RB, the Egypt expelled the Soviet Union’s military advisers in retaliation.

In fact as far as I know this event was unique, since I can not remember from US military advisers or other Western advisers has been expelled in reason of that refusal to sell a fighter.

Maybe today there is a country that should learn something useful with Egypt about the refusal to sell a fighter,after all to be independent its not enough only strong speeches, but the brave actions as did the Egypt.

Maybe the unit cost of the Rafale around US $ 170 million could be motivated the conclusion of contract in rush time, after all only for comparison the Gripen E had been offered for Switzerland at the unit cost of $ 150 million.

However I guess the most important aspect for this agreement for several countries in the Golf has been to close some window opportunity for Russia to approach of the Egypt through as example of the possible sale of the MiG 35 in the near future. After all how could the US has been continued to provide military aid through the Camp David agreement for Egypt while this will purchase the MiG 35 from Russia ?

For France perhaps a strong motivation to finalize this agreement with Egypt should be to obtain the first customer for the Rafale, in attempt to avoid that India could be withdraw from the deal with 126 Rafale F3 in the MMRCA program in the next few moths. However in this case the unit cost of $ 170 million that would be paid by Egypt could trigger an opposite side effect that has been desired for the France.

Why not? They bought Mistral ships from the French, and a lot of other equipment too. Why go through the whole trouble and expense of developing a new type when they produce an off-the-shelf type from abroad for the price of a licence fee?

Even in the most dark time from The Soviet Union had been produced under license the DC 3, and it were highly praised despite the all ideological issues once the same was an US project.

In the case of KC 390 I do not guess that possibility from Russia were remarkable impossible in the past, once the Russia could have been interest in producing the KC 390 under license, however this would be most likely a version with engines and avionics ‘made in Russia’.

Just at example in the time of the competition of the F / X program in Brazil, the Russians had been offered a counterpart to Brazil if it were opted for the MiG 35 or Su 35E. In this case Russia would produce under license the E-jets such as the Embraer E-190 to the Russia market , while Brazil would produce under license the MiG 35 or Su 35E for the South American market.

As Brazil discharged the Russia from the competition for political reasons, and because this had been opted for Rafale F3 and after by the F / A 18 E / F . But due to political problems with France and the US, the Brazil has been opting for the Gripen E / F since then.

The good news for Brazil should be that now Russia has been producing the Super Jet 100 which will competes directly with the Embraer E-190 on the international market, and all this only because the Brazil will produce maybe 15 Gripen E / F at the minimum cost of $ 150 million each unit , and now the Brazil has been forbidden by UK to export the Gripen E/F to Argentina.

Before someone will remember me that thread is about India and not about the Brazil or Russia, however make choices only for political reasons could be perfect for the part that will sell , however for those who will buy this kind of agreement could be a disaster.

Before ordering Gripen Brazil knew the UK would not allow export of British components to Argentina. Argentina knew the UK would not allow export of British components to Argentina. Why should Brazil cancel the Brazil contract?

I imagine KC-390 does not contain British components unless Argentina thought it would never order any for its own use.

I could give you US $ 3.6 billions from reasons by Brazil to cancel the Gripen E / F .

This were the most conservative value that could have been lost in reason of the refusal of the UK Government to authorize the possible sale of the Gripen E / F Argentina, after all if the Argetina would be willing to pay $ 150 million per each unit from Gripen E / F.

Certainly would have not been missing others options on the market that will be available for Brazil since the Gripen E has not been: the most advanced, the most powerful or even the most cheapest fighter on the market.

After all the Gripen E / F had been placed in the last position in preference for Brazil, since the Gripen E / F lost in preference for the Rafale F3 and the F / A 18 E / F, and if not because the political problems with France and the US, the Gripen E / F could not have been chosen by Brazil in the first place.

I guess there are extremely sarcastic about the claiming about such transfer of 100 % ToT from Gripen E and the reexport rights that were given for Brazil, while in the first trial about how serious were those allegations the Brazil has been forbiden by UK to carry out the sale of Gripen E/F for Argentina. Just remenber that Argentina is a neighbor of Brazil and as an important partner from Brazil either.

The denied sale for the UK Government about the Gripen E/F to Argentina has been motivated only by political factors, since there are none remarkble military issue by the UK that could give some reason do deny the sale of the Gripen E, once the UK will not employ the Gripen E.

I think that if Brazil had been threatened to cancel the purchase of the Gripen E / F, the UK would have released the sales to Argentina, once the position from Brazil has made very easy for the UK to cancel the sale in the first place.

The Government of Brazil that has been claiming about its independent political actions , and therefore has been considered worthy of a permanent seat in the UN Security Council because this independent behavior, but the recent submission from Brazil’s at the refusal from UK to allow the possible selling from Gripen E to Argentina should shows as example how much sarcasm could be found out in those allegations from Government of Brazil.

The China has been gaining the share from Brazil in the Argentina market as far I know, in reason of the fact that the UK has forbiden the sale of Gripen E for Argentina the relation with Brazil certainly will not be improved, also this action from UK will not prevent for long the Argentina to get an advanced fighter from another source even if all Western countries will follow the UK.

After all China and Russia has been providing a wide list of fighters that could be available in the market, and in a next few year even such 5th Generation.

Give it up, mate! Your obsession is getting tedious, & your snarky style is as annoying & inappropriate as ever.

This is a thread about Argentina & its military aviation. The current topic is the practicality of Argentina (1) assembling JF-17 & (2) developing bespoke avionics & weapons for it with Brazilian assistance. It is about what Argentina can afford, not Brazil, & JF-17, not Gripen.

I think that is very strange this obsession about JF 17 for Argentina, after all this fighter has not been in service with the China Air Force.

I read some posts before that the fact about the FC 31 or J 31 could not be acquired by China and this would remove all possibility for its any future acquisition for Argentina, but in the case of JF 17 it would not apply the same issue from J 31, maybe because this last one would be 5° Generation fighter!

Especially now that there are at least some facts about the interest of Argentina by J 10.

I think that should more stranger either the simple idea that China could integrate weapons and avionics from Brazil in the JF 17, once the China has been creating a wide list of weapons and avionics for the world market that could be seen in Zhuhai 2014. In reason of that I guess it could almost impossible that China will allow this in the JF 17 as well as Argentina would be interested in Brazil systems.

If Argentina could buy just few months ago 24 Gripen E / F for $ 150 million each unit that would be assembled in Brazil , why now Argentina could only buy the JF 17?

The Argentina has been show high interest to purchase the KC 390 as well as it has been participating of its program, and in this case I have not read about the fact that the Argentina Air Force could not be capable to buy the KC 390.

And build an in-house suite of weapons & avionics, for a small production run. Especially since Brazil would have to do most of the development, & would therefore get most of the income, having much more capability in both.

It’d be very expensive, & one thing Argentina’s air force is short of is money.

I do not understand your point of view in this case, after all Brazil will only assemble 15 Gripen E / F in five years, which would result at the best of a three fighters scale production per year, and that will be very expensive.

Beyond that Brazil will gone to pay for the development the dual seat Gripen F, however without any prototype since there are only 8 fighter among of 36 has been ordered in this suppose first batch, and that will be very expensive too.

All this for $ 150 million per Gripen E / F it seens like a such kind of Black Friday promotion, after all it was the same price should be paid by Switzerland without producing the only Gripen E in Switzerland.

By the another way the Brazil had not been thinking for 18 years if it would want to export such fighter for Argentina the Gripen E would be last option, once the SAAB has belong to BAe that is an UK company. And almost getting by surprise when Brasil saw the UK had been blocked a possible sale of the Gripen E/F for Argentina.

For Brazil money will not be apparently a problem, at least for the Gripen E / F, after all the Brazil has made a choice that perhaps eliminated the best opportunity to export a high-performance fighter that could be for Argentina.

In reason of this situation if Brazil and Argentina had started at least a simple study together in the past to define a future fighter could have been a good idea for both.

Maybe it could have missed time or someone taken this idea, after all the Brazil had short time for only 18 years to think about it, and if it had a great company like Embraer to give some tips maybe this had been done, after all the Embraer has invited the Argentina to work with KC 390 program.

This was a good find.

Indeed was so good that image and due this has been remains in it post after all this time elapsed, after all to illustrate it was perfect and I could found out another better than this available in the Internet , so if you have been seen something better please inform us the link.

You may also want to give your opinion about what you think of the campaign of murders from former pilots and personnel of the Iraq Air Force, therefore I suggest reading the article in post below:

http://abcnews.go.com/International/…1#.T4xLCLN1DkU

Here is a good reason why people like Tom Cooper and other ones ran/run into problems to find former IrAF people/pilots to report about their time in service in general and for 1980-88 especially.