Totally OT there, Byoin. Please stop thread crapping

Ponder this for a minute…

Mirage F.1 skipped for a twin-engine platform with souped up Adour motors. Twin engine Mirage F.1 could have been scaled up to replace Mirage 2K. The Rafale would have been a more natural evolution. Rather than push for larger single engine fighters, push for twins and scale up the motors a little bit. Sepecat Jaguar would have augmented both production lines.

And the Super Etendard with twin dry-only Adour would have been relatively little change in performance. But, being smaller had advantage in the tight confines of an aircraft carrier.

Mirage 50 sales were so minor that it wouldn’t have been out of the realm of possibility that Sepecat Jaguar sales actually improve. And don’t forget Hawk trainer sales augment your Super Etendard sales.

Plus, because the Adour is so much simpler, costs scale down with all the different designs sharing a common core.

Only that you wouldn’t have the proper gearbox, alternator, starter location, access points in the body for service, etc.

Dogfighting with all aspect LOAL missiles sounds like mutual assured destruction

Pray tell what an L-15 can do that an FTC-2000 cannot do? They both have pretty much similar limitations.

<br />
Manufacturer & Model ASCC Codename or Notorious Brandname<br />
=====================================================<br />
Aero L-29 'Maya' aka 'Delfín'<br />
Aero L-39 '?' aka 'Albatros'<br />
Aero L-59 '?' aka 'Super Albatros'<br />
Aero L-159 '?' aka 'Alca'<br />
Aero S-102 'Fagot-A' (Czech MiG-15)<br />
Aero CS-102 'Midget' (Czech MiG-15UTI)<br />
Aero S-103 'Fagot-B' (Czech MiG-15bis)<br />
Aero S-104 'Fresco-D' (Czech MiG-17PF)<br />
Aero S-105 'Farmer-C' (Czech MiG-19S)<br />
Aero S-106 'Fishbed-E' (Czech MiG-21F-13)</p>
<p>Bell P-39 Airacobra 'Fred'</p>
<p>Beriev Be-2 (MBR-2) 'Mote'<br />
<br />
Chengdu J-5 'Fresco-D' (MiG-17PF)<br />
Chengdu FT-5 'Fresco-?' (unique two-seat MiG-17)<br />
Chengdu J-7/J-7I/J-7II 'Fishbed-E' (MiG-21F-13)<br />
Chengdu J-7S 'Mongol-A' (MiG-21U)<br />
Chengdu J-7III 'Fishbed-J' (MiG-21MF)<br />
Chengdu J-7E '?'<br />
Chengdu J-7G 'Celestial Eagle'<br />
Chengdu J-7M 'Air Guard'<br />
Chengdu J-7M+ 'Super-7' (original Chengdu FC-1)<br />
Chengdu J-7MP/P 'Sky Bolt'<br />
Chengdu J-7S 'Sabre II' (MiG–21FL)<br />
Chengdu FT-7P/PG 'Mongol' (China MiG-21U)<br />
Chengdu J-10A 'Firebird' aka 'Vigorous Dragon' (aka PAC FC-20)<br />
Chengdu J-10B 'Firebird' aka 'Vigorous Dragon' aka 'Super-10' (aka PAC F-10 'Vanguard')<br />
Chengdu J-20 'Farfetch'<br />
Chengdu FC-1 'Fierce Dragon' (aka PAC JF-17 'Thunder')</p>
<p>Guizhou JJ-7/FT-7 'Mongol-A'<br />
Guizhou JL-9/FTC-2000 'Mountain Eagle'<br />
<br />
Hongdu JL-8 'Karakorum-8' (or 'K-8' for short)<br />
Hongdu L-15 '?'</p>
<p>Lavochkin La-7 'Fin'<br />
Lavochkin La-9 'Fritz'<br />
Lavochkin La-11 'Fang'<br />
Lavochkin La-15 'Fantail'</p>
<p>Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-9 'Fargo'<br />
Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-15 'Fagot' (originally 'Falcon')<br />
FAGOT-A Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-15<br />
FAGOT-B Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-15bis<br />
Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-15UTI 'Midget'<br />
Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-17 'Fresco'<br />
FRESCO-A Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-17<br />
FRESCO-B Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-17R<br />
FRESCO-C Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-17F<br />
FRESCO-D Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-17PF<br />
FRESCO-E Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-17PFU<br />
Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-17U ''<br />
Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-19 'Farmer'<br />
FARMER-A Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-19<br />
FARMER-B Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-19P<br />
FARMER-C Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-19SF<br />
FARMER-D Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-19PF<br />
FARMER-E Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-19PM<br />
<br />
Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-21 'Fishbed'<br />
FISHBED-A Mikoyan-Gurevich E-2, E-6 (prototype MiG-21)<br />
FISHBED-B Mikoyan-Gurevich E-4, E-5 (prototype MiG-21)<br />
FISHBED-C Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-21F<br />
FISHBED-D Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-21PF, MiG-21PFS, MiG-21FL<br />
FISHBED-E Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-21F-13<br />
FISHBED-F Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-21PFM<br />
FISHBED-G Mikoyan-Gurevich 23-31 (prototype STOL MiG-21PD)<br />
FISHBED-H Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-21R, MiG-21S<br />
FISHBED-J Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-21M, MiG-21MF, MiG-21SM<br />
FISHBED-K Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-21SMT<br />
FISHBED-L Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-21bis "LASUR"<br />
FISHBED-M Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-21bis (?)<br />
FISHBED-N Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-21bis "SAU"<br />
Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-21I 'Imitator' aka 'Analog'<br />
Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-21MF+ 'LanceR-A' (MiG MiG-21MF SLEP; orig. 'Lancer I')<br />
Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-21UM+ 'LanceR-B' (MiG MiG-21UM SLEP; orig. 'Lancer II')<br />
Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-21MF+ 'LanceR-C' (MiG MiG-21MF SLEP)<br />
Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-21UPG 'Bison' (MiG MiG-21bis SLEP)<br />
Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-21bis+ 'MiG-21-2000' (IAI MiG-21bis SLEP)<br />
Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-21U 'Mongol'<br />
MONGOL-A Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-21U<br />
MONGOL-B Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-21US/UM<br />
<br />
Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-23/27 'Flogger'<br />
FLOGGER-A Mikoyan-Gurevich E-231 (aka 23-11) (prototype MiG-23)<br />
FLOGGER-B Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-23, MiG-23S, MiG-23M, MiG-23MF<br />
FLOGGER-C Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-23U, MiG-23UB, MiG-23UM<br />
FLOGGER-D Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-27 (ground-attack MiG-23)<br />
FLOGGER-E Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-23MS<br />
FLOGGER-F Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-23B, MiG-23BN, MiG-23BM, Hongdu Q-6<br />
FLOGGER-G Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-23ML<br />
FLOGGER-H Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-23BN (w/o SPS-141 ECM), MiG-23BK<br />
FLOGGER-J Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-27M<br />
FLOGGER-J2 Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-27K<br />
FLOGGER-K Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-23MLD<br />
Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-23PD 'Faithless'<br />
Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-25 'Foxbat'<br />
FOXBAT-A Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-25P<br />
FOXBAT-B Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-25R, MiG-25RB, MiG-25RBN, MiG-25RBV, MiG-25RBK, MiG-25RBT, MiG-25RBF<br />
FOXBAT-C Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-25U<br />
FOXBAT-D Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-25RBS, MiG-25RBSh<br />
FOXBAT-E Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-25PD, MiG-25PDS<br />
FOXBAT-F Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-25BM<br />
<br />
Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-29/30/35 'Fulcrum'<br />
FULCRUM-A MiG-29UB/UBT<br />
FULCRUM-B MiG-29C<br />
FULCRUM-C MiG-29S/SD/SE, MiG-29SM/SMT<br />
FULCRUM-D MiG-29K/MiG-29KUB<br />
FULCRUM-E MiG-29M/ME/MT, MiG-29N, MiG-29MRCA/M/M2<br />
FULCRUM-F MiG-29OVT, MiG-35<br />
Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-31 'Foxhound'<br />
FOXHOUND-A Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-31<br />
FOXHOUND-B Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-31M<br />
Mikoyan-Gurevich Ye-2A 'Faceplate'<br />
Mikoyan-Gurevich Ye-150/152 'Flipper' aka 'Balalaika' or 'Unicorn'<br />
Mikoyan-Gurevich 1-42 'Foxglove'<br />
Mikoyan-Gurevich 1-44 'Flatpack'<br />
Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-AT 'Miser'</p>
<p>Nanchang Q-5/A-5 'Fantan' (unique MiG-19 development)<br />
Nanchang JL-8 'Karakorum-8' (or 'K-8' for short)<br />
Nanchang J-12 'Air Li Xiangyang'<br />
<br />
Polikarpov Po-2 'Mule'<br />
PZL-WSK Lim-1 '' (Polish MiG-15)<br />
PZL-WSK Lim-2 '' (Polish MiG-15bis)<br />
PZL-WSK SBLim-1/SBLim-2 '' (Polish MiG-15UTI)<br />
PZL-WSK Lim-5/5M/6 'Fresco C' (Polish MiG-17F)<br />
PZL-WSK TS-11 'Iskra'<br />
PZL-WSK I-22 'Iryda'</p>
<p>Shenyang J-2 'Fagot' (China MiG-15)<br />
Shenyang JJ-2/FT-3 'Midget' (China MiG-15UTI)<br />
Shenyang J-5 'Fresco-?' (unique two-seat MiG-17)<br />
Shenyang J-6/6C/6bis 'Farmer-C' (China Mig-19S/SF)<br />
Shenyang J-6A/J6Xin 'Farmer-D' (Mig-19PF)<br />
Shenyang J-6B 'Farmer-E' (Mig-19PM)<br />
Shenyang JJ-6 '?' ("MiG-19UTI")<br />
Shenyang J-8I/J-8II 'Finback' (China)<br />
FINBACK-A J-8, J-8I<br />
FINBACK-B J-8II<br />
FINBACK-C J-8IIM<br />
FINBACK-D J-8D (J-8IID)<br />
FINBACK-E J-8E<br />
<br />
Shenyang J-11 'Flanker-B+' or 'Flying Shark' (China Su-27SK)<br />
Shenyang J-15 'Flanker-D' (China T-10K-3)<br />
Shenyang J-16 'Flanker-E' (China Su-27MKK)<br />
Shenyang J-31 'F-60' or 'Gyrfalcon' or 'J-21 Snowy Owl'</p>
<p>Sukhoi Su-7/17/20/22 'Fitter'<br />
FITTER-A Sukhoi Su-7BKM, Su-7B<br />
FITTER-B Sukhoi S-22I (prototype Su-17)<br />
FITTER-C Sukhoi Su-17, Su-20<br />
FITTER-D Sukhoi Su-17M<br />
FITTER-E Sukhoi Su-17UM<br />
FITTER-F Sukhoi Su-22 (Su-17 for export)<br />
FITTER-G Sukhoi Su-22UM3<br />
FITTER-H Sukhoi Su-17M3<br />
FITTER-J Sukhoi Su-22M<br />
FITTER-K Sukhoi Su-17M4 (original was to be Su-21), Su-22M4<br />
Sukhoi Su-7U 'Moujik'<br />
<br />
Sukhoi Su-9/11 'Fishpot'<br />
FISHPOT-A Sukhoi T-3 (prototype Su-9)<br />
FISHPOT-B Sukhoi Su-9<br />
FISHPOT-C Sukhoi Su-11<br />
Sukhoi Su-9U 'Maiden'<br />
Sukhoi Su-15 'Flagon'<br />
FLAGON-A Sukhoi Su-15<br />
FLAGON-B Sukhoi T-58VD<br />
FLAGON-C Sukhoi Su-15UT<br />
FLAGON-D Sukhoi Su-15<br />
FLAGON-E Sukhoi Su-15T, Su-15TM<br />
FLAGON-F Sukhoi Su-15TM (mistakenly labelled 'Su-21' by intel)<br />
FLAGON-G Sukhoi Su-15UM (mistakenly labelled 'Su-21U' by intel)<br />
Sukhoi Su-24 'Fencer'<br />
FENCER-A Sukhoi Su-24 (batches 1 to 15 (27th a/c))<br />
FENCER-B Sukhoi Su-24 (batches 15 (28th a/c) to 23)<br />
FENCER-C Sukhoi Su-24 (batches 24 to 27)<br />
FENCER-D Sukhoi Su-24M, Su-24MK<br />
FENCER-D MODIFIED Sukhoi Su-24M (with APP-50 flare/chaff launcher)<br />
FENCER-E Sukhoi Su-24MR<br />
FENCER-F Sukhoi Su-24MP<br />
<br />
Sukhoi Su-25/39 'Frogfoot'<br />
FROGFOOT-A Sukhoi Su-25, Su-25SM<br />
FROGFOOT-B Sukhoi Su-25UB, Su-25UBM<br />
FROGFOOT-C Sukhoi Su-25T, Su-25TK, Su-39 (Su-25TM)<br />
FROGFOOT-D Sukhoi Su-25UTG<br />
Sukhoi Su-27/30/33/35/37 'Flanker'<br />
FLANKER-A T-10 prototype (prototype Su-27)<br />
FLANKER-B KnAAPO and IAPO Su-27, KnAAPO Su-27SK, (Shenyang J-11/11B?)<br />
FLANKER-C IAPO Su-27UB, IAPO Su-27UBK, (Shenyang J-11BS?)<br />
FLANKER-D NAPO Su-27K/Su-33 (incl. J-15 now?)<br />
FLANKER-E variant 1 KnAAPO Su-27M/Su-35, Su-35S/BM<br />
FLANKER-E variant 2 KnAAPO Su-37 aka 'Terminator'<br />
FLANKER-F variant 1 KnAAPO Su-30 (Su-27PU), IAPO Su-30K/KN<br />
FLANKER-F variant 2 KnAAPO Su-30M<br />
FLANKER-G KnAAPO Su-30MKK, Su-30MK2, Su-30M2, Su-35UB, (Shenyang J-16?)<br />
FLANKER-H IAPO Su-30MKI, Su-30MKM, Su-30MKA, Su-30SM, Su-30SM2, Su-30SM3 aka 'Super Flanker'<br />
Sukhoi Su-32/34 'Fullback'<br />
FULLBACK NAPO Su-27IB (Su-32, Su-34)<br />
<br />
Sukhoi Su-47 'Firkin' aka 'Golden Eagle"<br />
Sukhoi Su-50 'Flyhalf (many Russian fans believe it to be 'Firefox')</p>
<p>Tupolev Tu-10 'Frosty'<br />
Tupolev Tu-128 'Fiddler'<br />
FIDDLER-A Tupolev Tu-128 (orig. FATEFUL)<br />
FIDDLER-B Tupolev Tu-128M</p>
<p>Yakovlev Yak-7V 'Mark'<br />
Yakovlev Yak-9 'Frank'<br />
Yakovlev Yak-15/17 'Feather'<br />
Yakovlev Yak-17UTI 'Magnet'<br />
Yakovlev Yak-23 'Flora'<br />
Yakovlev Yak-25/26/27 'Flashlight'<br />
FLASHLIGHT-A Yakovlev Yak-25<br />
FLASHLIGHT-B Yakovlev Yak-26<br />
FLASHLIGHT-C Yakovlev Yak-27<br />
FLASHLIGHT-D Yakovlev Yak-27R (Changed to MANGROVE)<br />
Yakovlev Yak-25RV 'Mandrake'<br />
Yakovlev Yak-27R 'Mangrove'<br />
Yakovlev Yak-28P 'Firebar'<br />
FIREBAR-A Yakovlev Yak-28 (Changed to BREWER)<br />
FIREBAR-B Yakovlev Yak-28P<br />
<br />
Yakovlev UT-2 'Mink'<br />
Yakovlev Yak-11 'Moose'<br />
Yakovlev Yak-18 'Max'<br />
MAX-A Yakovlev Yak-18<br />
MAX-B Yakovlev Yak-18U<br />
Yakovlev Yak-18P 'Mouse'<br />
Yakovlev Yak-28U 'Maestro'<br />
Yakovlev Yak-30 'Magnum'<br />
Yakovlev Yak-32 'Mantis'<br />
Yakovlev Yak-36 'Freehand'<br />
Yakovlev Yak-38 'Forger'<br />
FORGER-A Yakovlev Yak-38<br />
FORGER-B Yakovlev Yak-38U<br />
Yakovlev Yak-41/141 'Freestyle' (originally 'Fulmar')<br />
Yakovlev Yak-130 'Mitten'</p>
<p>Xi'an JH-7/JH-7A 'Flounder' (China) aka (FBC-1) 'Flying Leopard'</p>
<p>

BAe’s EAP was a one-off design from Germany’s TFK-90, so it’s not unrealistic that Germany might have gone EAP. The TFK-90 was basically EAP with twin tails and different engines.

You do realize that the C models were given the same windows dressings as the E model during the retrofits. Honestly, from the sounds of things in this forum people forget that the E has operated in SAM protected environments without exactly taking a beating. You would almost guess they were RCS the size of oceanliners. It’s never been the case and their RCS may not be down to Eurofighter levels, but it’s not much worse than fighters much smaller than itself.