rickusn“The most important thing in a ASuW missile is the warhead.”
No its ” the targeting”.
I dont care how fast it is, I dont care what its range is, and I surely dont care how big its warhead is.
And targeting takes two forms.:
Close in with other ship traffic it may well hit something other than its intended target.
At longer ranges it needs off-board cuing. Which is problematic at best.
AFI concerned Ill take carriers with armed aircraft over missiles anytime, anywhere, anyplace, any opponent.
Of course thats only if I dont have SSNs . If I do all bets are off.
Because there are no(US
rickusnJeez Brez.
Your Russian( arent you? Or have I been mislead yet again.) and you dont know?
We depend on accurate, reliable and timely info from YOU.
But then how can that be when there is NONE from Russian authorities?
Holy Crap!!!!!!!!!!
It must be a return to the all consuming STATE SECRET mentality.
Please say its not so….
But then again we cant even get reliable info on the few remaing Sov class.
Its maddening.
LOL
But then hasnt that always been the plan?
rickusnI posted a bit from USNIs Proceedings Magon the new Russian LST in post #1129 earlier in this thread.
rickusnUdaloy Class
IMHO they are excellent ASW ships but lack somewhat in other areas in particular AAW. They are by far my favorite Russian surface warship.
This is the most up-to-date status of the class that I know of. If anyone has other illuminating info I sure would like to see it. As it is very difficult to get current and reliable info on the Russian Navy.:
INACTIVE:
http://warfare.ru/?linkid=1720&catid=243&decommisioned=true
DDG UDALOY | DESTROYERS
533 ADMIRAL SPIRIDONOV #820 Yantar Kaliningrad 30.12.1984 PAC
Laid: 11.04.82. Udaloy-5. 4.3.1985 entered PAC. 4 -8.7.1986 visited Vonsan (N. Korea). 8- 12.8.1991 visited Bombei (India). Decommissioned Aug 1998. Decommissioned 1997. Laid up 1999. 2002+ scrapped.
678 ADMIRAL KHARLAMOV #820 Yantar Kaliningrad 30.12.1989 NOR
Laid: 7.08.86 . Udaloy-11 +. 1.4.1990 entered NOR. 30.6 -5.7.1993 visited Halifax (Canada). 7 -11.7.1993 visited Boston (USA). 8 -11.7.1994 visited Rotterdam (Holland). 1999 refit completing in late 2001. 09.2006 need overhaul, put in reserve.
ADMIRAL ZAKHAROV #820 Yantar Kaliningrad 30.12.1983
Laid: 16.10.81. 18.1.1984 entered PAC. 29.11 -3.12.1987 visited Bombei (India). г. 12- 16.5.1988 visited Vonsan (N. Korea). 1 7.2.1991 had fire, not repaired. Decommissioned Jun 94. 29.9.1994 laid up, scrapped
400 VITSE-ADMIRAL KULAKOV #190 Severnaya 29.12.1981 NOR
Laid: 4.11.77. Udaloy-2. 9.2.1982 entered NOR. 3 -7.11.1988 visited Havana (Cuba). 19.3.1991 overhaul at Severomorsk. 1996 overhaul haulted at 67% readiness. 2002 overhaul restarted. 2005 overhaul completed at Severnaya verf. 2006 awaiting to re-enter NOR.
UDALOY #820 Yantar Kaliningrad 31.12.1980
Laid: 23.07.77. Udaloy-1, Decommissioned. Laid up 1999. 24.1.1981 entered NOR. 26-30.3.1984 visited Havana (Cuba). 24.10.1988 -19.1.1990 overhaul in Kronshtadt. 1997 decommissioned.
687 MARSHAL VASILEVSKY #190 Severnaya 8.12.1983 NOR
Laid: 22.04.79. Udaloy-3 + 18.1.1984 entered NOR. Laid up 1999. 2003: needs overhaul. Inactive. 2006: decommissioned. 08.2006: planned for sale for scrapping.
ACTIVE:
http://warfare.ru/?linkid=1720&catid=243&type=destroyers
605 ADMIRAL LEVCHENKO DDG Udaloy 30.9.1988 #190 Severnaya NOR
Laid: 27.01.82. Udaloy-9. Ex-Khabarovsk. 1.5.1989 entered NOR. 11 -15.10.1993 visited Tulon (France). Refit in November 1999 – 2001. 02.2004 took part in exercises in NOR. 06.2005 took part in Frukus 2005 exercises in Biscay bay. October 2005: Assisted to “Electron” trawler in returning to Russian port during its escape from Norway coast guard.
548 ADMIRAL PANTELEYEV DDG Udaloy 19.12.1991 #820 Yantar Kaliningrad PAC
Laid: 28.01.87. Udaloy-12 +. 1.5.1992 entered PAC. 23 -30.8.1993 visited Zindao (China). 31.8 – 4.9.1993 Visited Pusan (ROC). Visited Pearl Harbor, August 1995. Deployed to Pacific and Indian Oceans, Jan 2001. Feb-April 2003 took part in military exersises in Indian Ocean. 07.2005 took part in joint Russia-USA naval exercises. 10-12.2005 took part in Indra-2005 military exercises in Indian ocean. Visited India, Indonesia, Singapore. 11.2005 during stay in Jakarta lost 2 crew members.
619 SEVEROMORSK DDG Udaloy 30.12.1987 #820 Yantar Kaliningrad NOR
Laid: 12.06.84. Udaloy-8. Ex-Simferopol; active Northern Fleet. 1.5.1988 entered NOR. 16 -20.7.1991 visited Mayport (USA). Refit in June 1998 completing in late 2001, changed all 4 engines. Participating in Kursk salvage operation, Aug 2001
552 (564) ADMIRAL TRIBUTS DDG Udaloy 30.12.1985 #190 Severnaya PAC
Laid: 19.04.80. Udaloy-6 +. 15.2.1986 entered PAC. 18 -23.11.1987 visited Aden (Yemen). 16 -21.5.1990 visited Penang (Malasia). 5.12. 1992 -23.5.1993 peace forces in Persian gulf. 22.3.1994 in reserve. Was in reserve in 1994 and had a machinery space fire in September 1995, was probably back in service. 2001 visited Japan. 2003 lost helicopter during landing aboard in Japanese sea. Feb 2004: official visit to South Korea and China. 10-12.2005 took part in Indra-2005 military exercises in Indian ocean. Visited India, Indonesia, Singapore.
572 ADMIRAL VINOGRADOV DDG Udaloy 30.12.1988 #820 Yantar Kaliningrad PAC
Laid: 5.02.86. Udaloy-10 +. 1.5.1989 entered PAC. 2 ASW division. 31.7 -4.8.1990 visited San Diego (USA). Active Pacific Fleet; visited Pusan, ROK, in Apr 2000. Accidentally hit by a practice round from one of Burnyy’s AK 630s while in port on 10 Apr 2000 (no serious damage or injuries noted). 2001 overhaul. Repaired. Deployed to Pacific and Indian Oceans, Jan 2001. Acted as host-sister ship to USS Blue Ridge during the latter’s visit to Vladivostok in Aug 2002. 2003 overhaul at SRZ-82, Severomorsk. 06.2004 assisted as sister-ship to UK DDG Exeter during its visit to Vladivostok. 06.2005 took part in joint Russia-Japan naval exercises. 07.2005 took part in joint Russia-USA naval exercises.
543 MARSHAL SHAPOSHNIKOV DDG Udaloy 30.12.1985 #820 Yantar Kaliningrad PAC
Laid: 25.05.83. Udaloy-7 +. 15.2.1986 entered PAC. 29.11 -3.12.1987 visited Bombei (India). 14 -18.8.1990 visited Vonsan (N. Korea). 25.11.1993 overhaul at Dal’zavod. Feb-April 2003 took part in military exersises in Indian Ocean. Crew changed all 4 engines at base without laid up. 09.2004 visited Japan, took part in PASSEX military exercises. 07.2005 took part in joint Russia-USA naval exercises. 08.2005 took part in Peace Mission 2005 (Russia-China) exercises. 03.2006 visited the Marianas, joint Russia-USA naval exercises.
650 ADMIRAL CHABANENKO DDG Udaloy II 1999 #820 Yantar Kaliningrad NOR
Laid: 1990. Ex-Admiral Basistiy. Udaloy II-1. chopped to Northern Fleet after completion of trials in Baltic Fleet, Feb 99; formally accepted by Russian Navy Mar 99; currently active Northern Fleet. Visited Plymouth, England, Aug 2002, for Navy Day festivities. 02.2004 took part in exercises in NOR. 2004 commander: capt 1 rank Sergey Grishin (awarded by NOR CINC as Best Commander). 08.2005 took part in military exersises on Northern fleet. 08-09.2006: visited UK for Royal Navy day, Norway, took part in joint Russia-US exercises.
Thanks in advance to anybody capable of supplying further info.
Rick
rickusnTin Wing:
You are of course correct.
I think the author was trying to convey this aspect:
“They can act as humanitarian disaster managing vessels… “
And the “They” he was referring to was the new Russian construction.
He certainly could have been clearer and clarified his point better.
rickusnOk here goes some will be paraphrases and some direct quote excerpts:
“The current VMF procurement program calls for four-five ships” but a total of as many as 15 -20 is reguired.
They will replace 14 Project 1171 Tapir/Alligator class ships(only five survive), the 3 Ivan Rogov class ships(of which only one survives: 2?) and at least some of the Project 775 class ships of which 28 were built of which only 18 survive with some in reserve.
First of Class:
Ivan Gren BDK???
Keel layed December 2004
Delivery Early 2009
Full Load displacement approx 5000tons
Legth 120 meters
Two large separate supertructures: Forward Bridge Aft Hanger
Room in between for “removable ISO standard containers”
Hull is six meters tall:
Vehicle Deck:
Can carry 13 MBT of 60tons each or
36 armored vehicles of 15 tons each or
“several tons of …military trucks” or
Along with those stored topside 1500t of loaded ISO standard containers.
“Data on machinery not yet confirmed” but it appears that two marine diesels drive two shafts.
“Weaponry”
2 MLRS A215Grad M
“Each mount designated as MS 73, has 40 smoothbore tubes of 122mm caliber, which can fire 9M22 spin-stabilized rockets….Under the deck are two independent sores with a total number of 320 such rockets.”
Two AK176M 76mm turrets
Two or Four “Tula AX630M Gatling guns” or “Palma combined gun /missile mounts”
Final fits of all the above guns have not been confirmed.
“CRAFT”
“several small landing boats” Can be carried topside amidships.
Im guessing in liue of containers.
The Hanger can hold two Helos such as the Kamov Ka 29TB or Ka 50.
“ELECTRONICS”
Tayfun Pozitiv M1 Surface/Air search radar
Navigation radar
Helicopter aid radar
and a “low flying targets” detection radar
These last three radars may be of an “LPI concept”
Laska MR123-02 “gunfire control radar”
ESM/ECM system
“four integrated jamming/intercept antennas”
“two-four launchers of radar/IR/lazser decoys(probably the KT 216 mounts, ten barrels each).
“a few satellite antenna links”
“modern shipborne CIC”
“The general philosophy is similar to that of Europe’s latest constructions, such as the Netherlands Navy’s Rotterdam and Johan de Witt or the Royal Navy’s Albion and Largs bay classes. They can act as humanitarian disaster managing vessels or typical beaching ships for heavy armored vehicles.”
Hope this was helpful.
rickusnBrezhnev would you or anyone else like details of the new Project 11711 amphibious warfare ship.?
There is an article about it in USNI’s Proceedings February magazine:
“Details Emerge On The Russian Navy’s New Big Amphibious Ships” by Marcin Schiele “an expert in Russian designed wraships”.
My scanner isnt working but I can do a post with the most salient points if you or anyone else is interested.
Maybe you already have the details?
Let me know.
PS Useful tip when composing posts “copy” them before hit the add reply button or compose them elsewhere on your computer then copy/paste or I find using my email “create new message” function to be useful for this task.
rickusn“I wonder if the French plan on replacing her with a purpose built unit in the near future?”
Last I heard her replacment was to be the new L9013 Mistral. According to my Combat Fleets:
“…she will be specially configured to carry cadets and displays of french military equipment and will not normally be available for amphibious warfare duties.”
rickusnThanks for the link Brez!!!!
rickusnBreznev:
“I Read recently in a forum (airbase ru.) an item about the russian fleet’s dorctine.”
Could you please provide the link, title of the thread or its full text?
Very much interested!!!
Thanks. Rick
rickusnIm confused.
The article states:
“Thales, formerly known as Thomson-CSF, is a supplier of electronics to the defense and security sectors. “
History of Thales:
“In 1990 Philips decided defence was not a core activity and sold Signaal to Thomson-CSF, the French electronics and defence contractor. Signaal became Thomson-CSF Signaal. With the renaming of Thomson to Thales in 2000 Thomson-CSF Signaal became Thales Nederland.”
And this from the Thales site:
“Thales is a leading international electronics and systems group, serving defence, aerospace and security markets worldwide, supported by a comprehensive services offering.”
And tis from a sub-part of the Thales site “Thales in the Netherlands”:
“Thales’ principle field of activity in The Netherlands is naval defence systems. Other military activities include air defence, communications, optronics, munitronics, cryogenics and security. On the civil market, Thales provides a full range of navigation and positioning equipment. Thales Services is active on both the military and civil markets. “
Im not sure I understand how “Thales Nederland” or “Thales in the Netherlands” cant be involved.
Thanks for any clarification.
It truly is a bit confusing
rickusnWhat Argument?
You made statements of fact that you cant back-up.
Again.
rickusnPretty strong statement;
“As for the issue with the USN getting 50, nahhhhhhhh, the AB’s are replacing about 30 OHP’s, the others will be replaced with the LCS but not 50 of them!”
Anything to back it up?
AFAIK the AB’s are replacing none of the OHP’s.
And the LCS are the nominal, defacto replacement for 30 OHP’s, 26 MHC/MCM and 13 PC1 over a decade or longer.
The only possible shortcoming I see for the LCS is can it do Blue-water ASW.
Thanks. Rick.
rickusnYou do know what NAVY stands for dont you????
Never
Again
Volunteer
Yourself
LOL
rickusn“If you, as you appear, are far too sensitive ever to hear anything that could be bad about your former service I suggest you confine yourself to a forum just solely of 15 year old warship fans cos, like, American AEGIS cruisers…man…theyre just like the coolest…they got lots of missiles on ’em – way more’n anyone elses ships!!!!. See the point?.”
Another typical useless, worthless cheap shot.
That is totally untrue.
In fact its a matter of record that I have done just the opposite of what you suggest Ive done.
“giving out the impression that no ill can be said of his service “
I have never given such an impression. Ever.
And I stand by this statement:
“For you may accuse me of such but for eleven years on the internet I have never, ever stated anything like that or that the USN is the “best or has the “best” or does the “best” “
” cant speak for the USN and maybe you lot are all different but if you go on an RN board (try Warships1.com’s) you see a healthy dose of self-analysis and self-criticism of the RN by those who serve and have served.”
I have. And at that site you will also get a “healthy dose” of if its Royal navy its the “best”.
So your statement is self-serving fluff.
Many disparaging commnets have been made about the USN and its equipment with no documentation to back them up.
Just because such attacks often go unchalleged doesnt mean they are either valid or acceptable.
“Suppressing, or denigrating discussion”
No such thing.
Unless you deem challenging undocumented assertions presented as fact doing so.
I asked for documentation and got nothing. Nor will I.
In fact youve made it quite clear I have to provide info that disputes those false assertions to begin with.
Thats bunk.
And then when I have they have been dismissed out of hand.
“The structural issues – definitely agree there, but, those projected costs are usually factored into the wholelife budget for the class, least thats how the RN does it, everyone indeed knows that, at mid-life, ships need major work so you budget for best-case early and avoid most of the pain.”
The USN did but when the time came the funding wasnt there.:
“”Because I know for sure the USN had plans for these ships modernization and that said modernization was not undertaken for funding reasons vice hull problems.”
But I shouldnt have to prove theres not those problems. Thsoe who say there are have that responsibility.
Also some upgrades cant be projected far in advance at least not in the USN.
As for “strange behavior” heres one of many examples of the RN taking similar actions:
F 93 Beaver Commissioned 12/84 Decommissioned 2/99 and towed away for scrapping 2/01.
So you are telling me if the RN does something so egregious its OK? But for the USN its not?
Are you telling me if I made some baseless assertions about why the RN would do this without proper documentation that would be OK?
BS
I do my homework.
I provide documentation and facts to back up my assertions and opinions.
I expect the same from others.
If you think that is wrong then you know exactly why most knowledgeable, informed and respected naval analysts(profeessional or amatuer) take pains to avoid these so-called discussion groups.
Plus if you take a look at Richard Beedalls NavyMatters site you will(Im quite willing to wager) be surprised to see some of my work.
So dont try accusing me with being an anglophobe as once again you would be quite wrong.
This thread was never about truth, facts or reality.
But it has been except for me about unwarranted attacks on the US, USN and myself to serve yours and others baseless disregard for ” truth, facts or reality”.
You can attack me all you want.
But if you care to take a peak in a mirror you will find that how you are attempting to paint me is in fact how you are painted.
Your very long post attacking me holds no water.
As all of the above proves.
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