rickusn“The last time I checked, only 8 out of the original 12 Osprey class minehunters were still in service, but all 14 Avenger class MCMs have been retained.”
Yes with more Osprey to go soon.
But European didnt seem to like you pointing this out.
LOL
rickusn“The USN is currently disposing of the license built Osprey class, although the older wooden clad hull MCM class is being retained.”
Be careful Tin Wing facts and reality dont go over well here.
LOL
rickusnLOL
More BS from the cheap seats.
LOL
So what your telling me is only people who dont have facts should post here.
LOL
Why am I not surprised???????????
LOL
rickusn“Either American boats defy all known laws of hydrodynamics and dont react to a skewed hull the same way anyone elses boats do…after all they are American boats right!!!!…or whichever hull it was that had the twist had handling problems. “
Thats my point!!!
Of course the dont defy any laws.
And this is way out of line:
“…after all they are American boats right!!!!..”
For you may accuse me of such but for eleven years on the internet I have never, ever stated anything like that or that USN the USN is the “best or has the “best” or does the “best”
But it is the usual response of the arrogant and ignorant when they are called to provide documentation to back up their assertions and opinions.
However I have read all the histories of these ships and except for the brief reference on the CG 51…nothing.
I also have checked with a number of ex-USN and current USN who ALL have nothing but good things to say about these ships. They of course are not necessarilly the ultimate authority so Im quite open to someone providing documentation to the contrary.
So if there is detrimental info out there those who are so certain of it should provide the proper documentation.
As usual its not forthcoming.
Downsizing is downsizing.
Far more money was wasted in the late 80’s-early 90’s on both young ships being prematurely decommissioned and very expensively modernized older ships.
OHP FFG 7 ships were being decommissioned with only 14 years service.
Some Belknap class cruisers were decommissioned after less than a year after coming out of their year long verrrry expensive NTU upgrade.
These ships were were at there mid-life point needed expensive upgrading of their AEGIS systems, had no VLS, needed expensive, extensive structural repairs (as all the ships of this class did and as do most mid-life ships) plus among other things needed expensive alterations to operate SH-60F Helos.
This could all be accomplished but DOD in particular didnt want to spend the money.
In fact the DOD didnt want to spend money on anything that wasnt transformational.
The premature decommissioning of the Spruances, LA SSN’s and the F-14 fighter are other examples.
The USN has been in the process the last coupla years of drawing down from nearly 370,000 sailors to just over 330,000.
About 20,000 are gone and another 20,000 are programmed to be gone by this time next year.
Another reason why the OHP class is not likely to last as long as planned.
Now I do the vast majority of the posters here will consider those sailors useless by virtue of some undocumented defect(s). But I assure you thats not the case. Not that I will sway anyones virulent anti-USN stand/opinion here.
Like I sated before the USN is an “open book” and that despite those who would say I think “wrong” is a “good thing”.
Opinions based on arrogance, ignorance and anecdotal evidence are mostly quite useless.
Lets see some documented hard facts and data.
And there may well be some.
All I ask is that someone show it to me.
Why is that too much to ask????????????
Eleven years ago when I first began discussing naval topics online I thought what a great thing this will be.
And was for a while.
Its proved over the years to be mcuh less than what we all hoped it would be at the time.
Virtually all the well respected experts now shun these forums and have for years and for good reason.
Because most of what passes for knowledge and history these days is based on nothing but arrogance and ignorance.
Its a shame really.
You can attack me and/or the US, USN all you want but all it proves is your outstanding capacities for ignorance and arrogance.
I wish I could say I never such screwed up forum but alas this type of forum is all too prevalent on the world wide web.
I turned 50 today.
And while there is alot to celebrate about there is also alot thats not.
rickusn“Id make a guess that the hull with the longitudinal axis twist was Valley Forge”
I dont if thats the case as all the history I ahve read on her she operated in high-threat and demanding environments with distiction right up to the time of her retirement and no mention of even the slightest handicap.
Unless proven otherwise Id say this ship did not have the above mentioned problem.
OTOH the above might be in reference to the last of the five decomissioned the CG 51 Thomas S. gates hull misalignment of several degrees which once agin appears not to ahve caused any untoward problems as she to routinely deployed and operated with distinction.
Thats why I would like to see some actual,reliable authotrative reports before casting dispersions on these ships.
Because I know for sure the USN had plans for these ships modernization and that said modernization was not undertaken for funding reasons vice hull problems.
But Im sure that its not likely to be forthcoming.
But Ill wait patiently and give the Aussies the benefit of the doubt for now.
rickusn“Reports from the RAN surveying teams….”
Are these available in the public domain?
They would make interesting reading, thanks for any direction.
rickusnNo yard goof.
No other issues.
Nothing nefarious.
The simple fact is that the modernization program for those five ships was abandoned by the USN/DOD on a cost/benefit grounds.
Preserving them in a mothballed state is also considered not applicable on a cost/benefit basis.
Most nations cant afford to operate, man or maintain them much less modernize them. So no transfers.
Therefore they were decommissioned, stripped of useful materials and placed in Category X or L status:
CG 47/48/50(CG47 is on hold for musem or memorial donation):
Maintenance Category X
Reserve Category X ships/service craft will be retained and receive no maintenance or preservation. Only security against fire, flooding, and pilferage will be provided. Reserve Category X applies to ships and service craft that have been stricken from the Naval Vessel Register and are awaiting disposal by scrap, sale to foreign countries (FMS), designated target, memorial, or donation, as applicable.
It only takes a relatively short period of time for deterioration to set in on CAT X from humidity, salt and other enviromnmental factors.
CG 49/51(Still being stripped):
Maintenance Category L
Category L are designated as a logistics support vessel by CNO.
The above status info found here:
The last photos I saw this summer of CG was when she was being used for boarding training. Some of those photos can be found here:
http://www.navy.mil/search/photolist.asp
Its likely the others will be used shortly as targets also with the exception of CG 47.
Spruance Class Status:
19 sunk
3 CAT X Scheduled for sinking.
2 scrapped
2 CAT X Scheduled for scrapping.
2 CAT X DD 979 is on hold for musem or memorial donation and I expect 963 will be too.
3 CAT C On hold for possible transfer to Turkey(2) and Pakistan (1).
Maintenance Category C
Maintenance on Category C ships/service craft in general takes priority over all other categories except Reserve Category B. Category C ships/service craft will be retained essentially “as is” and will be preserved to minimize deterioation. Retention service craft and ships being held for Foreign Military Lease (FML) will be assigned to Category C. Ships/service craft selected for this category are those which receive a lesser mobilization priority than Category B.
There are now no longer any surface combatants in CAT B reserve.
Only five LKA, four LST and one(soon two) AO’s.
The above amphibious ships will be in CAT X soon.
rickusn“Rick, indeed USN is an open book, but if you think that is a good thing, then you thought wrong…”
Why is that pray tell?
“If you do the same thing with USN, I promise you..”
Who the hell are you to promise anything.
I served in the mid/late 1970’s we didnt have sh-t. But we still went to sea and went head to head with the much vaunted USSR Navy EVERY SINGLE DAY of the YEAR.
“That’s a rather asinine statement. France could afford US warships. So could China, to be frank. The first doesn’t buy them because they can build their own. The second can’t buy them for political reasons. There’s more involved than just money.’
You people are actually stupider than I gave you credit for:
France cant afford sh-t.
Neither can China.
Political my butt and everything is about money.
And Broncho you dont have a clue.
LOL
I hate war.
But I hope Russia comes out to play again soon.
The only thing “asinine” around here is this entire thread.
Russias navy sucks now and will for at least another 20 years.
And this tells the whole story:
Wrap: Russia prioritizes strategic forces on security agenda
19:20 | 16/ 11/ 2006
“MOSCOW, November 16 (RIA Novosti) – Russia’s president and defense minister said Thursday that developing the strategic forces is the main priority for the country’s defense agenda.
President Vladimir Putin told a meeting with top military officials, “Maintaining a strategic balance will mean that our strategic deterrent forces should be able to guarantee the neutralization of any potential aggressor, no matter what modern weapons systems he possesses.”
He called for the creation of cutting-edge strategic weapons, and emphasized the importance of quality.
“We must meet schedules to create new strategic weapons to secure a balance of forces in the world. This means that we will not indulge in comparisons of quantitative data of our strategic nuclear deterrent forces as we did previously,” the president said.
Defense Minister Sergei Ivanov told the meeting that Russia’s Armed Forces will buy 17 intercontinental ballistic missiles in 2007, as well as four spacecraft and four carrier rockets.
* Russia’s modernization plans for its strategic forces
According to a new doctrine for the development of the armed forces, Russia will completely modernize the naval component of its nuclear triad by 2016, deploying new Bulava ballistic missiles on Project 955 Borey-class nuclear-powered submarines and equipping land-based strategic missile units with silo-based and mobile Topol-M (SS-27) ballistic missiles.
Russia’s Missile Forces regularly launch missiles to test their performance characteristics and decide whether they can remain in service. About 360 silo-based RS-18 (SS-19 Stiletto) missiles, which have been in service for 29 years, are currently in operation in the forces.
The R-30 Bulava (SS-NX-30) ballistic missile was developed at the Moscow Institute of Thermal Technology. It can carry up to ten nuclear warheads, and has a range of 8,000 kilometers (about 5,000 miles).
Bulava missiles, a sea-based version of the Topol-M, could be deployed on Borey-class nuclear submarines as early as in 2008, according to missile designers.
Last year, Russia conducted two successful test launches of the Bulava. The first in-flight test launch was conducted on September 27, 2005, from the Dmitry Donskoi, a Typhoon-class ballistic missile submarine. But this year two of test launches had failed.
The defense minister earlier said Russia is planning to purchase 69 silo-based and mobile Topol-M ballistic missile systems in the next decade.
Russia currently has five missile regiments equipped with silo-based Topol-M missiles, and the first regiment equipped with mobile Topol-M systems is set to be put on combat duty in 2006.
* Modernizing the Navy and Air Force
Russia’s Navy Commander earlier said that replacing outdated strategic submarines should be made a military shipbuilding priority for the next five years.
President Putin said in his state of the nation address on May 10 that Russia would commission two new strategic nuclear submarines in 2006.
Russia is also planning to modernize the air component of the nuclear triad by modernizing its fleet of strategic bombers.
Ivanov said on July 5 that Russia’s Air Force had commissioned a modernized Tu-160 Blackjack strategic bomber and could receive a new Tu-160 bomber by the end of the year.
* Russia’s nuclear capability
As of January 1, Russia possessed 927 nuclear delivery vehicles and 4,279 nuclear warheads for strategic offensive weapons, while the United States owns 1,255 and 5,966, respectively, according to the Russian Defense Ministry’s department for contract compliance control. “
Because w/o nuclear weapons Russia would cease to exist in less than a week.
And they would all be speaking Chinese.
LOL
All your responses have proved my contentions that this like ALL Russian Navy threads Ive come across is full of crap at best and outright false otherwise.
LOL
Will it ever end? And you people finally face up to reality?
Or is that concept to difficult for you to grasp?
It must really nice that you all can forgo objectivity, facts, history andof course for you the much dreaded “reality” of the situation.
LOL
rickusnLOL
About what I expected:
“And if none of the little green men hiding in your butt know anything about whether the USN has any submarines let alone whether they are operational or not then I wonder why anyone would buy US naval vessels.”
The USN is an open book.
The Russian Navy is not.
Anyone who can afford US warships buys them.
Otherwise……………..
And BTW both the Indian and Chinese navies have major issues with the ships they have bought from Russia.
LOL
The only warships worse are the ones they build themselves.
But taht is changing albeit slowlyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy.
LOL
rickusnLOL
So let me get this straight:
This thread has been going on for well over a year.
Yet:
No one knows for sure what if any Russian warships are active or if they are capable of getting underway if their equipment and systems are functional.
Exactly what have you been wasting all this cyberspace for?
Thats a rhetorical question becasuse I already know the answer.
The Chinese and Indians must be looney to procure anything from Russia.
IMHO
LOL
rickusnOverhaul is not complete, the ship is still at the warf, the photo is from May, 2006. She looks like that for the last three years.
Thanks
Rick
rickusnSo Neptune this is wrong:
930 LEGKY #190 Severnaya 29.9.1977 NOR
Laid: 22.04.74. Ex-Leningradsky Komsomolets. 29.11.1977 entered NOR. 1979, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997 awarded by CINC prizes for ASW trainings. 27.10.1988 -22.1.1991 overhaul at SRZ-35, modernization to 1135-II. 23 -26.3.1994 took part in joint Norway-UK naval exercises in Norwegian sea. 12 -16.7.1993 visited Istambul (Turkey) with CINC aboard. 24 -25.10.1994 visited Norway. 12.2003 decommissioned
Why is it so difficult to get simple,basic information on the Russian Navy?
It would be laughable if it wasnt so pathetic.
And yet most Russians consider the Russian Navy to be better equipped and trained than the USN.
And when I say prove it all I get is BS.
There is no one(In Russia or anywhere else for that matter) who knows for sure if any of these ships are operational or derelict and if they are operational no one knows if they can perform their intended missions and functions.
What a joke.
LOL
rickusnSo Snake this is wrong:
400 VITSE-ADMIRAL KULAKOV #190 Severnaya 29.12.1981 NOR
Laid: 4.11.77. Udaloy-2. 9.2.1982 entered NOR. 3 -7.11.1988 visited Havana (Cuba). 19.3.1991 overhaul at Severomorsk. 1996 overhaul haulted at 67% readiness. 2002 overhaul restarted. 2005 overhaul completed at Severnaya verf. 2006 awaiting to re-enter NOR.
rickusnThanks for the reply.
Only four Krivak class remain nominally active if Ladny actually returns from overhaul.
KRIVAK CLASS:
FFG KRIVAK I | FRIGATES
702 PYLKY #190 Severnaya 28.12.1978 BAL
Laid: 6.05.77. 24.1.1979 entered BLS. 10- 14.10.1983 visited Pirei (Greece). 18 -23.7.1996 visited Zeebrugge (Belgium). 19.2.1987 – 9.7.1993 overhauled at Yantar’ to 1135-II. 1998 awarded by CINC prize for ASW trainings. 2003 took part in 1st Naval Salon in St Petersburg. 10.04.2004 celebrated 25th its anniversary. Located in Baltyysk. 2004 commander capt 3 rnk Vyacheslav Cherepakhin.
810 LADNY Zaliv SSZ, Kerch 29.12.1980 BLS
Laid: 25.5.1979. 25.2.1981 entered BLS. 7 -10.8.1981 visited Varna (Bulgaria). 18-22.6.1996 visited Pirey (Greece). 1991, 1993 awarded by CINC prize for ASW trainings. 1994 awarded by CINC prize for artillery trainings. 1994 took part in joint exercises with NATO navy. 1995: participated in 50th Anniv. of Great Patriotic War Victory Parade, St. Petersburg, CinC-BSF embarked. named to task force scheduled to deploy to Adriatic during Operation ALLIED FORCE, Apr 99. 2006: overhaul completing end of 2006.
FFG KRIVAK II | FRIGATES
808 PYTLIVY #820 Yantar Kaliningrad 30.11.1981 BLS
Laid: 27.06.79. 9.2.1982 entered BLS. 30.5 -3.6.1988 visited Algeria. 22-26.1.1991 visited Pirey (Greece). – в Пирей (Греция). 2.12.1989 supported Grobachev-Bush meeting at Malta. 9.7.1993 -1996 overhaul at Yantar’. 28.7.1996 took part in naval parade in St.Petersburg. Named to task force scheduled to deploy to Adriatic during Operation ALLIED FORCE, Apr 99. 03.2004 took part in ASW exercises in BLS, launched ASW missiles. 11.2004 took part in “Active Efforts” NATO exercises in Mediterrian, visited Tartus (Syria). 2005 visited Indian ocean, Mediterrian jointly with CG Moskva. 05.2005 took part in BlackSeaFor 2005. 07.2005 took part in joint Russia-Turkey exercises. 07.2005 took part in joint Russia-Italy exercises. 05-06.2006 visited Crete, Pirey, visited Spezia (Italy). 09.2006 took part in “Active Efforts” NATO exercises.
731 NEUKROTIMY #820 Yantar Kaliningrad 30.12.1977 BAL
Laid: 22.01.76. Ex-Komsomolets Litvi (27.03.90). 17.2.1978 entered BAL. 5- 10.1978, 7- 11.10.1985 visited Rostok (Germany). 12 -18.6.1982 visited Luanda (Angola). 25.6-2.7.1982 visited Lagos (Nigeria). 26 – 30.5.1985 visited Poland. 5 – 8.6.1990 visited Kiel (Germany). 21 – 23.6.1990 visited Poland. 2-6.9.1991 visited Amsterdam. 23 – 25.4.1997 visited Rotterdam. 1981, 1984, 1998, 1999 awarded by CINC prize for artillery trainings. 1981, 1988 awarded by CINC prize for AD trainings. 1983, 1998 awarded by CINC prize for ASW trainings. Flagship during Naval parade 2005 in St Petersburg partly sunk and was transferred to Severnaya verf. Repaired. 07.2006 took part in Naval Parade in Kaliningrad.
My understanding is that the Steregushchy project 20380 ships are rplacing the Grisha class. Untrue?
rickusnWould like some clarification on status of selected Russian Surface Combatants.
In particular the Sovremenny class DDG’s and Kara class ASW cruisers:
Sources:
http://warfare.ru/?catid=243&linkid=1720
http://mdb.cast.ru/mdb/2-2004/rat/sfd/
Combat Fleets of the World
SOVREMENNY CLASS:
“The Project 956 Sovremenny class large destroyers were undermined by their unreliable high-pressure steam boilers and poor servicing; factors which led to 7 of the 17 built from 1980 to 1994 to be stricken. Of the remaining ten ships, only the Bespokoyniy and the Nastoichiviy of the Baltic Fleet and the Besstrashniy of the Northern Fleet are fully operational.[13] The Northern Fleet destroyers Rastoropniy and the Bezuprechniy are derelict at Severniy Wharf in St. Petersburg, while the Bezuprechiy will soon follow, along with the laid-up Gremiashiy of the Northern Fleet.[14] The Bezuderzhniy is also kept in reserve in unsatisfactory condition. In the Pacific Fleet, the Bystriy, Burniy, Bezboyaznniy and the Boyevoy are all in a so-called “limited” condition of fitness, and the first two are the only ones that ever go to sea.”
DDG SOVREMENNY | DESTROYERS
610 NASTOYCHIVY #190 Severnaya 30.12.1992 BAL
Laid: 7.04.88. Ex- Moskovsky Komsomolets. Sovremenny-16. 675 (1992), 610 (1993), 810 (1994), 610 (1996) 5.2.1993 entered BAL. 19 -26.6.1993 visited Kiel (Germany). 07.2005: took part in BalTops 2005 trainings. 2006 commander: capt 1 rank Sergey Pinchuk. 07.2006 took part in Naval Parade in Kaliningrad.
715 BYSTRY #190 Severnaya 30.09.1989 PAC
Laid: 29.10.85. Sovremenny-11. 676 (1989), 786 (1991), 715 (1993) 31.10.1989 entered PAC. 5 -8.6.1990 visited Kiel (Germany). 23 -30.8.1993 visited Zindao (China). 31.8 -4.9.1993 visited Pusan (S. Korea). 1993 -2002 overhaul. 08.2006: took part in Naval parade in PAC.
720 BOYEVOY #190 Severnaya 28.09.1986 PAC
Laid: 26.03.82. Sovremenny-6. 678 (1986), 640 (1987), 728 (1989), 554 (1990), 770 (1990), 720 (1993) 5.11.1 986entered PAC. 18 -23.11.1987 visited Aden (Yemen). 12 -16.5.1988 visited Vonsan (N. Korea) 31.7-4.8.1990 visited San Diego (USA) 25.11.1993 overhaul at Dal’zavod.
434 ADMIRAL USHAKOV #190 Severnaya 30.12.1993 NOR
Laid: 16.04.90. Deployed with Kuznetsov on maiden deployment, Dec 95. Sovremenny-17. Overhauled 2003. 694 (1993), 678 (1995), 434 (1996) 21.1.1994 entered NOR. Ex-Besstrashny. 2004 renamed to Admiral Ushakov.
620 BESPOKOINY #190 Severnaya 28.12.1991 BAL
Laid: 18.04.87. 11.2.1992 entered BAL. Participated in BALTOPS 97, Sovremenny-15. 678 (1992), 620 (1993). 2004: in overhaul at Yantar’. 2006: re-entered Navy?
778 BURNY #190 Severnaya 30.09.1988 PAC
Laid: 4.11.83. Sovremenny-9. 9.11.1988 entered PAC. Active Pacific Fleet; visited Pusan, ROK in Apr 2000. While in port near Vladivostok on 10 Apr 2000, accidentally discharged AK-630, striking Admiral Vinogradov with a practice round (there were no injuries).677 (1988), 795 (1990), 778 (1994). 2004: commander capt. 1 rank Alexander Kuzminets. 04.2004: took part in military exercises, launched SSNs. 08.2005 took part in Peace Mission 2005 (Russia-China) exercises. 07.2006: overhaul at Zvezda.
KARA CLASS:
“The Black Sea Fleet maintains two old, large Anti-Submarine Ships of the Project 1134B Kara-class? the Kerch and Ochakov, and, although the former has recently undergone running repairs and the latter is expected to return to service after 16 years of mid-life repairs, the extreme age and wear of these ships make their battle-readiness entirely ephemeral.[19]”
CG KARA | CRUISERS
713 KERCH #200/ Nikolaev 25.12.1974 BLS
Laid: 30.04.71. Kara-2. 23.1.1975 entered BLS. 10-14.8.1984, 11 – 15.8.1989 visited Varna (Bulgaria). 28.6 – 2.7.1989 visited Istanbul (Turkey). named to task force scheduled to deploy to Adriatic during Operation ALLIED FORCE, Apr 99. 524(74). 529(75-76), 534(77),703(78 и 85), 715 (79-80),708(87), 717(89), 711(90), 713 (2000). 2003-2004: overhaul in Sevastopol. 11.01.2005 laid up in Novorossiisk for overhaul.
707 OCHAKOV #200/ Nikolaev 4.11.1973 BLS
Laid: 19.12.69. Kara-1. 522(73), 539(74),526(75-76),509(78), 527 и 716(79),175(80), 530(77 и 83), 745(79),703(86-87), 714 (88),707 (90). 28.11.1973 entered BLS. 14 – 19.6.1978 visited Latania (Syria). 13 -18.4.1979 visited Rieka (Yugoslavia). 11 -16.6.1979 visited Tulon (France). 10-13.8.1979 visited Varna (Bulgaria). 20-24.10.1986 visited Havana (Cuba). 26-31.3.1987 visited Istanbul (Turkey). 26-30.10.1987, 8 – 12.5.1990 visited Split (Yugoslavia). 24 -28.4.1989 visited Constanza (Romania). 11 – 14.6.1990 visited Taranto (Italy). 26.3.1980 -8.7.1984 overhaul at Sevmorzavod, Sevastopol. 2000- 2006 overhaul in Sevastopol. 09.2006 still at Sevmorzavod yard for modernization.
Anybody have any other info?
Questions:
The Boyevoy has not been to sea in many years(from what I can find on her). Is she actually active?
Will the Burny and Bespokoiny actually return to service?
Same for the two Kara class ships.
On the UDALOY CLASS:
“The electronics and armaments of the large Project 1155 destroyers are largely outdated.”
“However, the operational condition of these ships depends on the use of replacement gas-turbine power plants taken from reserves on hand. Alas, very few new turbines have been purchased from the Ukrainian Zorya factory in Nikolayev.[18]”
Does the Russian Navy have plans to rectify these shortcomings?
I thought the Russians were now producing Marine Gas Turbines. Untrue?
Thanks for any help, direction, info and/ or clarification.
Thanks for your time and kind consideration of my requests.
Rick
Sign In
