I beg your pardon. I confused you with Walt:

http://users.bestweb.net/~kcoyne/f104story.htm

Alfakilo,

How much of the F-104’s and F-4’s performance was limited due to engine thrust?

Sure, aerodynamically the airframe is limited by physics but did the J79(s) allow both aircraft to reach their full potential?

Would more thrust and better SFC increase the Phantom’s capability in the A2A role regarding maneuverability and the WVR fight?

Did you co-worker happen to mention that nobody flew the F-4 or F-104 at these altitudes other than in tests and in training? The only time I ever saw 40,000′ in either aircraft was in initial training where the instructor was demonstrating high altitude performance.

I had wondered if the F-4 was flown at 30,000 ft. It appears then the Eagle was the first real 30,000 ft (high alt) fighter.

Can you tell us what the intended altitude range the F-4 was designed for? I assumed up to 30,000 ft seeing it was to be an air superiority fighter.

I would assume that it would mostly depend on the pilot, in a F-14 vs F-15 confrontation.

you should check this adress:

http://www.tomcat-sunset.org/forums/index.php?topic=2441.0

the guy did a lot of things, and, among others, some nice gunshots in a single tomcat vs two eagles…

Registration is disabled, care to summarize?

Hello Andy,

My father flew the CF-104 out of Cold Lake. Graduating class of 69′. He also flew the CF-5 and RF-4Cs out of Shaw AFB (72′-74′). Sadly he never shared ANY flying stories.

Thank you for sharing the DACT with the Eagle. Incredibly fascinating Eagle vs. Zipper. I have asked a few questions below:

My plan was to put Hartmut in close formation and run head on at the F-15 using GCI for vectoring. Our radar could search out to 40nm but we couldn’t lock on until 20nm.

Was he in trail? How close?

We took the first GCI vector and accelerated through the mach. Intended to fight fast…high speed extensions and hook turns.

How far did/would you have extended? Elevation/vertical change as well?

What is a hook turn?

The plan was to Fox-1 at about 16nm and then have Hartmut peel off into a hard 360 to follow me.

He would initiate his turn after you merged? Horizontal turn and at what speed?

I called the Apex at 16nm, told Hartmut to deploy, and then pushed it up to over 700KIAS.

What altitude were you at? What was the Mach number?

I picked him up visually…he was high, to the right, and had started a conversion turn.

Did he start the turn really early?

What was your separation distance at the merge?

I unloaded, and extended away figuring they would try to follow…and they did.

What speed did you max out at when you extended?

What that did, of course, was get them sandwiched between me and Hartmut.

Was Hartmut above or below the Eagle?

My guess was that they would get all excited and jump on me without asking where my wingman was. They found out soon enough as their GCI relayed to them Hartmut’s gun attack call.

Pipper was placed on the planform of the Eagle above or below?

I was looking back and saw their break turn that resulted.

Break turn in the same direction as when they converged on you?

I went idle and boards, slowed to .85M, dropped my maneuver flaps, put my lift vector on the Eagle and then pulled the jet into a hard 7g turn using burner to hold my speed. I knew I could sustain that g at around 400KIAS.

Wow. What altitude were you at? Horizontal port turn?

I pulled into a lead snapshot position on the Eagle, closed in and went guns.

Did you maintain M.85 or were you accelerating hard to get the shot and then extend away? Wanting a lot of speed?

By this time, Hartmut was pitching back into the fight.

Vertically or horizontally… above or below the Eagle?

He saw me extend away, went in for his second gun attack, and then extended away after me. I tallyed him, gave him a check turn to put us back into line abreast and then we became a dot.

You separated vertically as well? Climbed as you broke away or unloaded?

Simply incredible Andy!

At any time were you threatened by the Eagle’s energy state?

Do you think the Eagle could keep up with the 104 in this type of “high Mach” engagement i.e. if you had paired with an Eagle and you both were doing DACT with say, a Tomcat as the adversary? Am curious to know how the Eagle would have performed compared to the Zipper in this type of engagement.

The G model you flew had the 16,000 lbs thrust 79?

What the weight difference between the G and C models?

Thanks so much!