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WJ244

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Viewing 15 posts - 436 through 450 (of 1,167 total)
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  • in reply to: Supermarine Swift on E-bay #1024678
    WJ244
    Participant

    In terms of airworthy vintage aircraft 50k is small beer BUT airworthy aircraft tend to appreciate in value if well maintained and we are talking about an aircraft which has no prospect of being flown. I am extremely sceptical that there is anyone out there willing to lay out 50k for a neglected static example of a jet which is hardly an icon to the average member of the public.
    True it is worth what someone is prepared to pay for it and in the present economic climate I doubt anyone will want to lay out anything close to 50k particularly with a large transport bill and significant restoration costs to make her presentable again. I also have my doubts that static airframes appreciate greatly in value and I would be very surprised if this one could be sold on after restoration for anything near the restoration costs.
    My own opinion is that she isn’t worth a great deal more than scrap value although I am not sure exactly what she would realise as scrap. Others here who are far more knowledgable about values than me have said maybe £10 to £12,000 is a fair price which seems quite reasonable to me.
    I have a car to restore which when finished will, if I am lucky, be worth around the cost of restoration but I took it on because I really wanted the car and the chances of getting another are slim. If the Swift does find a new owner it is likely to be one with the same outlook – sufficient love for the aeroplane to plough money into it which may prove impossible to recover in the forseeable future.
    We don’t need to talk up the project as I am sure that there are already people out there who would consider taking her if the selling price was realistic.

    in reply to: Supermarine Swift on E-bay #1034590
    WJ244
    Participant

    In terms of airworthy vintage aircraft 50k is small beer BUT airworthy aircraft tend to appreciate in value if well maintained and we are talking about an aircraft which has no prospect of being flown. I am extremely sceptical that there is anyone out there willing to lay out 50k for a neglected static example of a jet which is hardly an icon to the average member of the public.
    True it is worth what someone is prepared to pay for it and in the present economic climate I doubt anyone will want to lay out anything close to 50k particularly with a large transport bill and significant restoration costs to make her presentable again. I also have my doubts that static airframes appreciate greatly in value and I would be very surprised if this one could be sold on after restoration for anything near the restoration costs.
    My own opinion is that she isn’t worth a great deal more than scrap value although I am not sure exactly what she would realise as scrap. Others here who are far more knowledgable about values than me have said maybe £10 to £12,000 is a fair price which seems quite reasonable to me.
    I have a car to restore which when finished will, if I am lucky, be worth around the cost of restoration but I took it on because I really wanted the car and the chances of getting another are slim. If the Swift does find a new owner it is likely to be one with the same outlook – sufficient love for the aeroplane to plough money into it which may prove impossible to recover in the forseeable future.
    We don’t need to talk up the project as I am sure that there are already people out there who would consider taking her if the selling price was realistic.

    in reply to: Possible dH Comet flying next season #1024808
    WJ244
    Participant

    Does the Comet need to operate from grass? I could be wrong but I think she may have been fitted with a tailwheel and flown off the runway when she operated from Hatfield.

    in reply to: Possible dH Comet flying next season #1034700
    WJ244
    Participant

    Does the Comet need to operate from grass? I could be wrong but I think she may have been fitted with a tailwheel and flown off the runway when she operated from Hatfield.

    in reply to: "Spitfire" Production line re-opened / Enstone (merged) #408274
    WJ244
    Participant

    I can understand the attraction to the owners although it does seem strange that the design is not certified for aerobatics.
    The article I read said that they were proposing to make them available as a squadron for airshow appearances but I have my doubts that any display organiser will want to stump up money for 10 identical 90% replicas when it is comparatively easy (although admittedly more expensive) to book the real thing which will have much more crowd appeal.
    I think we can say fairly safely that they “won’t be at Legends”.

    in reply to: Supermarine Swift on E-bay #1025601
    WJ244
    Participant

    Unfortunately its value is clouded by the disposal of the previous family owned Spitfire. Which was sold on for a considerable profit.

    I think the above hits the nail on the head but there was a time in the 60’s and possibly early 70’s when there was little or no interest in rebuilding Spitfires to fly and at that time they weren’t worth massive money.
    Once the RAF decided to dispose of all their gate guards there was a cache of Spitfires to restore and it became viable to remanufacture a lot of parts neeeded to make them airworthy. At the same time it also seemed that almost as many potential owners appeared with the means to restore and operate a Spitfire as there were potentially airworthy rebuild projects so values climbed quickly hence the ability to move the family’s Spitfire on for a quick but substantial profit. It doesn’t make what happened right but it does emphasise that the profit came from being in the right place at the right time with the right airframe to sell.
    Unfortunately a Swift is not a viable project to rebuild to fly and the only recent attempt failed for various reasons including the unexpected death of the owner. Shortage of parts and the specialist expertise for an airworthy rebuild of a single example would make the cost prohibitive. Couple this with the difficulties of finding and maintaining an engine and the demanding flight characteristics which may mean that the CAA may not be prepared to issue a C of A mean the Swift is and always will be worth a great deal less than even a complete basket case Spitfire.
    I can understand the owners wish to ensure that they are not ripped off (again) but they need to take a hefty dose of realism and understand that just because they both happen to have a pair of wings a Swift and a Spitfire do not share a common cash value.
    I sincerely hope that common sense prevails and that the Swift can be rescued and restored with the family receiving a fair and realistic price for the airframe but sadly I think they will continue to hold out for an unrealistic price and eventually it will either disintegrate or they will scrap it in a fit of pique and there will be no winners.

    in reply to: Supermarine Swift on E-bay #1035683
    WJ244
    Participant

    Unfortunately its value is clouded by the disposal of the previous family owned Spitfire. Which was sold on for a considerable profit.

    I think the above hits the nail on the head but there was a time in the 60’s and possibly early 70’s when there was little or no interest in rebuilding Spitfires to fly and at that time they weren’t worth massive money.
    Once the RAF decided to dispose of all their gate guards there was a cache of Spitfires to restore and it became viable to remanufacture a lot of parts neeeded to make them airworthy. At the same time it also seemed that almost as many potential owners appeared with the means to restore and operate a Spitfire as there were potentially airworthy rebuild projects so values climbed quickly hence the ability to move the family’s Spitfire on for a quick but substantial profit. It doesn’t make what happened right but it does emphasise that the profit came from being in the right place at the right time with the right airframe to sell.
    Unfortunately a Swift is not a viable project to rebuild to fly and the only recent attempt failed for various reasons including the unexpected death of the owner. Shortage of parts and the specialist expertise for an airworthy rebuild of a single example would make the cost prohibitive. Couple this with the difficulties of finding and maintaining an engine and the demanding flight characteristics which may mean that the CAA may not be prepared to issue a C of A mean the Swift is and always will be worth a great deal less than even a complete basket case Spitfire.
    I can understand the owners wish to ensure that they are not ripped off (again) but they need to take a hefty dose of realism and understand that just because they both happen to have a pair of wings a Swift and a Spitfire do not share a common cash value.
    I sincerely hope that common sense prevails and that the Swift can be rescued and restored with the family receiving a fair and realistic price for the airframe but sadly I think they will continue to hold out for an unrealistic price and eventually it will either disintegrate or they will scrap it in a fit of pique and there will be no winners.

    in reply to: Possible dH Comet flying next season #1025805
    WJ244
    Participant

    I think it is more a case of Old Warden is a bit bumpy and narrow. It has been said in other threads that the Comet is a handful on finals with a vicious stall so it is probably better to fly from the open spaces of Duxford where they can possibly use a slightly higher approach speed to cut down the stall risk and if anything did go wrong once she is on the ground the pilot will have a lot more space to sort things out.
    Great to see that she may well fly again and this time she will be based somewhere that she can be seen while on the ground. It is a shame that she doesn’t fly from Old Warden but bearing in mind the outcome of her last flight Duxford seems to be a more sensible option.
    Assuming all goes well I presume she will be at Legends!

    in reply to: Possible dH Comet flying next season #1036025
    WJ244
    Participant

    I think it is more a case of Old Warden is a bit bumpy and narrow. It has been said in other threads that the Comet is a handful on finals with a vicious stall so it is probably better to fly from the open spaces of Duxford where they can possibly use a slightly higher approach speed to cut down the stall risk and if anything did go wrong once she is on the ground the pilot will have a lot more space to sort things out.
    Great to see that she may well fly again and this time she will be based somewhere that she can be seen while on the ground. It is a shame that she doesn’t fly from Old Warden but bearing in mind the outcome of her last flight Duxford seems to be a more sensible option.
    Assuming all goes well I presume she will be at Legends!

    in reply to: Supermarine Swift on E-bay #1026700
    WJ244
    Participant

    The idea that we just might still be young is probably what keeps many of us going. Unfortunately the arthritis in my dodgy knee as a result of an accident at work restricts what I can do and where I can go now but if I didn’t have that problem I would still be riding motorcycle trials and still hang on to the bike I bought when I was young just in case they find a way to sort my knees.

    in reply to: Supermarine Swift on E-bay #1036928
    WJ244
    Participant

    The idea that we just might still be young is probably what keeps many of us going. Unfortunately the arthritis in my dodgy knee as a result of an accident at work restricts what I can do and where I can go now but if I didn’t have that problem I would still be riding motorcycle trials and still hang on to the bike I bought when I was young just in case they find a way to sort my knees.

    in reply to: Supermarine Swift on E-bay #1037913
    WJ244
    Participant

    I suspect the owners view is that he will part with it if the price is right but his idea of the right price appears to be miles away from a realistic value for the aircraft taking into account the current condition and restoration costs. I presume he believes that the longer he keeps it the more it will be worth but in my view the opposite is true. Even if I won the lottery I would not part with £50,000 for a derelict Swift but, if lottery money came my way, I would seek advice on a realistic value and work with a museum to save it simply because I would hate to see her broken up.
    It is probably fair to say that the number of preservation groups is,, if anything, declining and is likely to continue that way as there don’t seem to be too many youngsters interested in preserving our heritage. The Swift probably appeals most to those who are perhaps 55+ years old and none of us are getting any younger. The fewer old uns there are around who know the history of the Swift the less appeal (and therefore value) the airframe will have. I really hope it finds a home where it can be cared for before it becomes completely beyond salvage.
    I am also not convinced that it would sell as parts. Presumerably the owner would regard the wings and cockpit as highly valuable (just as he does the complete aircraft) so the likelihood of being able to buy parts of the airframe at realistic prices must be pretty low.
    The “save a swift fund” is a good idea in principle but only if it could be obtained for a realistic price. Personally I have my doubts that it would be possible to raise £50,000 even if the aircraft was worth that kind of money and the purchase price is only the very start of a long and expensive commitment.

    in reply to: Supermarine Swift on E-bay #1038337
    WJ244
    Participant

    The value of any static airframe is dictated by several factors including its rareity, condition, historic significance, location, size, wow factor and in some cases potential for return to flight.
    I would suggest that this Swift falls short on virtually all of these count

    Unfortunately I have to agree. From an enthusiasts point of view it is a rarity and deserves saving but, even if the price was viable, there is still the problem and cost of moving the airframe and finding a good secure home with restoration facilities and a willing and skilled restoration team. Is there actually an existing museum who would have the space to take her in?
    From the point of view of the commercial director of an aviation museum a Swift would mean little to the average member of the non-enthusiast public so I would suggest that if the choice was between a badly corroded Swift needing years of work and expenditure or a couple of fibreglass replicas of well known World War 2 fighters a museum would be extremely unlikely to throw money at the Swift.
    Sadly this one may well have a future as pots and pans unless the owner decides to adopt a more realistic attitude to it’s value.
    As a matter of interest is the scrap value of a badly corroded Swift more than the values suggested here for the airframe? I would have thought it contains a fair amount of “exotic” metals probably making the smelted metal worth less due to the impurities.

    in reply to: Duxford, Again…. #1039902
    WJ244
    Participant

    Thanks for the updates and photos. I must admit they have helped fire my enthusiasm to pay a few visits over the past couple of years and have emphasised the fact that the place is far from a dusty dead museum.

    in reply to: Duxford airshow 1973 – a request #1045466
    WJ244
    Participant

    Thanks for the info. I feared she may have met the same fate as some of the other late Anson retirements and landed up with a scrappie particularly as she looked pretty forlorn when I last saw her at Old Warden.

Viewing 15 posts - 436 through 450 (of 1,167 total)