I don’t know the history of the robot but will check to see if it is mentioned in the museum newsletters when I get a chance to go through them. As far as I remember it was acquired because it was thought it would be an attraction for children.
As far as a tribute site goes there are others here who have been talking about the possiibility of a book of some kingd although this isn’t likely to move anywhere for some time. The museum was the first purpose built commercial aviation museum in the UK. It was a great shame that it foundered and left many people who had put in an awful lot of work feeling that they had been short changed in terms of broken promises etc.
Little Toni has a fairly straightforward history as does Ballerina although Ballerina has had a rather chaotic life at times.
The Chino airframe is Miss Cosmic Wind whiich has a shoulder wing and her history was part of the mystery as at one time this airframe probably incorporated the wing from Minnow. The history and final fate of Minnow appears to be linked to the history of Filly which was built by Robin Voice in England.
I think I have most of the history pretty much straightened out now but there are a few areas connected with the period when Milton Blair owned Cosmic Wind airframes and parts which may never be completely confirmed.
I know I posted this a long time ago but as a result of this thread I was contacted recently by the current owner of G-BAER Filly which is now under rebuild to fly again. He gave me some names of people involved in the later history of the Cosmic Winds and further websearches led me to a US forum where I got enough contacts to piece together most of the history I wanted.
It just proves what a great and widely read forum we have. Even though I didn’t get a direct response from the forum it did produce a lead to solve most of a mystery which had puzzled me for years.
The labour certainly is the hard part. I have been working (on and off) on restoring a 1965 Rochdale Olympic kit car for a good few years now. I bought the car because a friend had owned it from new and I had always wanted one ever since I first saw it. I didn’t realise until after I bought it that it was a fibreglass monocoque (I just loved the aerodynamic shape) but having got it home thought a fibreglass monocoque would probably be easier than a conventional chassis but now I am not so sure. Fibreglass takes a lot of finishing by hand as many glider owners will know. At least I can keep it in the garage so I don’t have to travel to an airfield to do the work or pay for storage.
Great to see this saved. I have always thought that the Olympia is a particularly pretty glider and it would have been sacrilege to burn this one.
I think one of the main reasons that older gliders don’t get saved is because few are aware that there are cheap (albeit rough) ones out there.
I hadn’t realised that it was possible to buy a restorable glider for a few hundred pounds. I know it would still take more money and a lot of work to get one back in the air but the costs and work involved are probably more viable for those of us on lower incomes than the costs of a powered project.
My understanding is that with help and guidance from suitably experienced club members it is possible to do much of the work on a glider yourself.
Is this the case or am I oversimplifying things?
Bruce is right in saying that the Drover never flew here. I am sure that the type was never certified by the CAA and the main reason Air navigation and Trading never got it flying was the cost of certification.
Bruce could well be right in saying that the engines never made it to the UK. it certainly didn’t have any when it arrived at Southend. I am a bit surprised to hear that the fuselage was used as an office because it had a big platform that I assume was the stretcher rack (unless it was something rigged up as a shelf for files) when it was at Southend and there wasn’t a great deal of room for much else inside other than the pilot.
On a serious note the Panton Brothers have done a fantastic job with Just Jane and I appreciate the atmosphere and attraction of the taxy runs but it would be great to see her in the air again. The only reservation i have is a concern that there may not be sufficient demand for a 2nd Lancaster on the UK / European display work to provide any kind of income to help maintain her in flying condition.
I understood that the BBMF makes no charge for display appearances. Although they carefully select the displays they attend they do seem to cover most of the larger events which are likely to have the kind of budget to pay for a Lanc to appear. If I am right in thinking that the BBMF do not charge are there enough organisers out there who can’t get PA474 and will pay a viable rate (I know that the charges for a warbird display never covers the true operating costs) to have NX611 instead.
I don’t want to spread rumors, but I saw a delivery car for a Chinese resturant parked outside.:eek:
A service call?
Delivering spare parts?
Doing a deal for a Stirling?or just hungry engineers?…
Yeah, that’s what they WANT you to think.:rolleyes:
Got it – Get NX611 airworthy then exchange PA474 for the Chinese Stirling. We will still have an airworthy Lanc in the UK so no one will be the least bit worried.
Sounds like this trading idea is catching on but will the Stirling be airworthy or just a heap of bits to form the basis of a project.
Remember you saw it here first!
The problem with XB259 was that the Beverley had never been certified for civilian use (although one carried G-AOEI? at one time) so the cost of getting a civil C of A for XB259 was prohibitive. I think they also overcame the early problems with the Tristar engines so Court Line had less need of an aircraft able to ferry spare engines around.
I feared the worst would happen when she sat for so long at Luton and it is ironic that the sole survivor is the airframe that 35 years ago looked to have the most uncertain future of the 3 aircraft that were around then.
As far as I remember the main reason for selling Grumpy was that few display organisers wanted to book a B-25 so there was little income to pay for maintenance etc.
At the end of the day if the aeroplane is such a huge drain on resources due to a lack of bookings it makes mores sense to sell it on and stick with the aircraft that contribute a larger amount towards their keep.
I was sorry to see Grumpy go but I must admit I don’t remember many airshow appearances in recent times which means either I have a very bad memory or the aeroplane just wasn’t that popular. Still a shame though and she will be greatly missed.
You are a lucky man. I would love a ride in WJ288 after all these years.
When I worked at the Southend Museum, in the early days, the cockpit of the Beverley was always manned when it was open. I spent many days sitting up there often in the blazing sun while the public looked her over.
The advantage of an attendant in the Beverley cockpit was that it was a great vantage point for keeping an eye on the rest of the outdoor exhibits as well. Sometime later it was decided that an attendant was not needed in the Beverley probably to cut costs. As a result the Beverley cockpit was wrecked, some idiot jumped on the wings of Gemini G-AKGD and the fabric on the belly of Anson G-AGPG was slashed. The vandalism spelt the end of G-AKGD which had already been suffering from glue rot and very nearly finished off the Anson as well.
It was a very ill conceived cost cutting exercise as the costs of repairing the damage to the outdoor exhibits would have been huge and their scruffy state after the vandalism couldn’t have done much for the overall image of the museum either. Yet another example of the management skills of the second curator!
By the way the Southend Beverley was XB261 which had I believe had spent her entire flying life with the A&AEE at Boscombe Down. The Beverley at Fort Paull is XB259 which spent her entire career at Farnborough. Strange that neither of the last two survivors ever saw normal RAF service!
Will it be staying in the UK?
Will it be at Legends next year – sorry couldn’t resist.
Look forward to hearing news of the Drovers future. She has had a hard life since arriving in the UK.
When I went SWWAPS years ago to deliver the switchbox and a few other internals from the Drover they told me that at that time it was owned by Doug Arnold.
Trumper as a follow on top your discussion with MKV.
As Mark V has said while it is feasible to run airworthy engines in a taxiable airframe it is a huge amount of work to fit one engine into any airframe and four would be an absolutely massive task.
It is cheaper to fit engines into a testbed like that used by Retrotec simply because it takes far less man hours than fitting to an airframe.
It also must be far easier to flush all the systems on a testbed to ensure that all the oil and coolant is completely clean reducing the risk of damage to an expensive newly rebuilt unit. Think of the problems Sally B has encountered this year which at least in part may have been caused by a problem with a complicated and in places very inaccessible oil system.
I know that a testbed doesn’t allow all 4 engines to be run together but I don’t see this as an issue as the object of ground running is to ensure that each engine is Ok. If each unit is OK then running them all together in one airframe should be perfectly OK unless there is a problem with the systems in the aircraft itself and I am sure all restorers run checks to find any systems problems well before they risk running a newly built engine in the airframe.
I have posted before about N9089Z. As a teenage volunteer at Southend I helped out on many of the aircraft at various times.
She was moved to Southend from Biggin Hill by a crew from Aviation Traders. The spar bolts wouldn’t shift so it was impossible to remove the wing centre section. Apparently the crew foreman decided that the best way round the problem was to take a chainsaw to the mainspar ensuring that she would never fly again.
After the museum became the Historic Aircraft Museum and moved to the compound on Aviation Way the Mitchell became the baby of Stan and David Brett who later formed Rebel Air Museum although many others mucked in along the way. Stan and David spent hundreds of hours on the Mitchell and made up very realistic wooden guns for all the gun positions. Without their work it is unlikely she would ever have got to the presentable condition she was in when first displayed at Southend.
The problems at Southend started when the original curator left shortly after the opening. His departure was as a result of infighting amongst other senior staff one of whom appeared to want his job.
The new curator (appointed from the existing senior staff) appeared to do little to maintain the exhibits and spent much time entertaining his secretary in his office with the door locked. He also banned all the volunteers from the museum.
I believe it was when Ian Huddleston was appointed overall manager of the complex by Queens Moat House that this situation changed as Ian had an interest in aviation and he recognised that there were problems at the museum and took steps to address them.
He appointed Bill Gent (who had been a volunteer since the BHAM days and was also a former employee of the first owners of the Historic Aircraft Museum) as curator but by then it would have needed a very large fortune to right the many years of neglect. Bill did a great deal during his comparatively short time as curator and received a great deal of help from many people on the airfield including Bob Batt, Wren Aircraft Services, Aviation Traders and particularly Nigel Brendish from Harvestair who arranged the loan of the Leisure Sport WW1 replicas but the money to carry out proper repairs on all the aircraft just wasn’t available and neither was the workforce so the decision was made to close.
I look back at my time at the museum with many happy memories tempered by the thought of what might have been. The plans at the outset, particularly those for keeping some exhibits airworthy were ambitious and some were never realised but the original owners do deserve credit for a brave venture (where else at that time could you see a Storch and Harvard in the UK) which must have drained a lot of their money and, with the right management over the years and a bit more help from the local council (who refused to allow signposting to the museum) might just have survived.
My comments weren’t specifically aimed at the original poster they were just intended to add to the general discussion.
If the original poster had told us all where he lives it may well be that some of the pilots who are forum members could have offered an explanation for the low flying in his area. He also didn’t specify what he meant by low flying. My idea of low flying is below 100ft because I equate low flying with air displays. In terms of a light aircraft on a routine cross country flight I would imagine the definition of low flying would probably equate to below 1000 feet or so (again I could be wrong).
If these aircraft are flying low then presumerably the poster can read their registration letters and then write to his nearest airfield who will firstly be able to confirm that they operate from that airfield and secondly they may be able to offer an explanation for the flight levels used in his area.
I am sure no pilot purposely flies low with the deliberate aim of causing a nuisance to those on the ground. If the original poster feels he has a genuine complaint then he now has a starting point to try to resolve the problem or at least try to understand the problem.
Incidentally I used to ride off road motorcycles. I hear plenty of them around where I live now. The noise doesn’t bother me unduly but the fact that they are being ridden illegally in places where they damage the sea wall and a local site of special scienctific interest does concern me. I am also concerned that their actions damage the hobby of people like myself who have ridden legitimately in organised competitions and now find that thanks to the actions of people who ride in prohibited areas we are unable to secure land to hold legitimate competitions. In these circumsytances I am happy to do anything I can to see those who ride on the wrong places prosecuted.