WJ244I suspect that the wood has probably got pretty fuel soaked over the years as well and that probably won’t have helped. It seemed traditional that control line aircraft were built in one piece regardless of size. Maybe it had something to do with centrifugal loads. With radio control there are of course no centrifugal loads to worry about so the loads on the structure are quite different.
It was a long time ago but when I saw the model fly I thought it was painted in the earlier dark blue and white BUA scheme. The paint in your photos looks comparatively fresh. It seemed a bit underpowered when it flew even though I think at least two of the engines were Oliver Tigres which were regarded as one of the best control line engines. I also remember that it was difficult to get all four engines running at the same time as they seemed a bit tempremental and that it was only flown in calm conditions.
It was a spectacular model for it’s time and it is nice to see it has survived.
Good luck with the RC version. I reckon it will need a fair bit of power to push that big bulbous nose through the air.
Incidentally there used to be a very tall tree on the opposite side of Eastwoodbury Lane to the boundary fence at the end of the Runway at Southend. I remember standing by the church as a young spotter and watching the Carvairs on approach. It wasn’t unusual for them to lift a wing just to make sure it cleared the tree and I did hear stories of the occassional arrival with small bits and pieces from the tree in the undercarriage. Don’t know how true these stories were but I certainly saw them lift a wing – just to make sure – regularly. It was also known for them to land on 3 engines having had problems on the way back across the Channel.
The tree was cut down eventually around the time they flattened the cottages on that side of the road as they were suddenly considered to be a hazard. When I stand there now I wonder how anyone ever managed to live in the cottages.
WJ244I am a comparative newbie and read this thread with interest.
I saw the Carvair model fly on two tree island at Leigh-On-Sea when I was a teenager probably around 1969/70.
It was flown by Len Heinrich (I think I got the name right) who was the leading light in the Southend Control Line Club. He campaigned for a long time for a properly surfaced control line circle on the edge of the old radio control flying site. I met him on the RC field several times and as far as I remember he told me that at that time the Carvair model belonged to a councillor whose name may have been King.
I think at some point the model was displayed in a furniture or nursery goods shop owned by John Creasey who was a local RC flier.
There had been hints that Big John may be scrapped while the Historic Aircraft Museum was still in existence because the space on the airfield was wanted for other things. Bill Gent told me he was approached when he was museum curator with a view to moving Big John to the museum. He said it was a problem to find space for it in the museum compound and the final decision was to leave the Carvair on the airfield but if it came to the point where the aircrart was to be scrapped then room would be found for it in the museum car park. It wasn’t an ideal situation but it would have solved the immediate problem of space and saved the aircraft.
The Carvair model in the museum either went back to Aviation Traders or may have got sold off in the Phillips Auction. I know Bill got quite a lot of help from Aviation Traders so I think it more likely it was on loan and went back to them.
I first met Bill Gent when the aircraft were being moved across to the museum compound. I turned up at the compound on my pushbike and waited for someone to turn up. Stan Brett arrived with a tractor and listened to my plea of “please mister can I help with the aeroplanes.” Stan decided I needed to talk to Bill and took me off across the airfield on the tractor to find Bill and I was in.
Bill kept in touch for over 25 years but we lost track of each other in the late 90’s. I was sorry to hear he had died.
Both Bill and Stan and David Brett had taken literally hundreds of pictures during the development of the Historic Aircarft Museum and I wondered if anyone knows what happened to all the photos.
WJ244The Ilyushin Il -18 shown on the website was listed on Ebay a while ago !
WJ244Been searching all my Corgi product update emails but can’t find the ones relating to releases until end of year.
The new list (received 6 october) for next years models shows Friday 13th for the 1st quarter and one shown just as Halifax/Halton for 4th quarter.
When I manage to find the right file on my computer I will post the projected relase dates for the 2007 models but hope this is a bit of help.
WJ244I was never fortunate enough to see her although I lived even closer to Foulness then than I do now.
Interesting to know about the stress cracking in the UC bogie beams as the Southend Beverley had similar problems. The whole centre rotted out of both UC bogie beams so that you could see the axles through the centre entirely surrounded by fresh air. The metal came off in huge flakes as if it was delaminating. It was amazing that she was still on her wheels when the scrapman came.
The Beverley also had stress cracks running down the fuselage from the leading edge of the tailplane which were attributed to the constant stress from wind gusts over her years at Southend.
Just goes to show how much damage the weather can do to a static airframe.
By the way I suspect that the salt air on Foulness helped the bogie beams on their way. I know both the corrossion on the Beverley and spar corrosion found by Aces High when they rebuilt the Southend CASA 2111 for static display were put down to salt air corrosion and the museum was probably a couple of miles inland whereas XR219 couldn’t have been far from the waters edge.
WJ244It isn’t / wasn’t unusual for aircraft sections as well a whole airframes to land up at Foulness. If they wanted to find out how much explosive it took to blow a hole in say a specific place on a rear fuselage it was cheaper and easier to transport just the section they needed rather than a whole airframe. A neighbour worked there as a fireman in the 60’s and he reckoned that at that time they had Valiant noses there for explosive tests around the cockpit area. Just goes to show one mans scrap is another mans test rig!
From what I remember a good deal of the alleged TSR2 bits that came out of Foulness and went via Rochford were wing and tailplane sections so maybe Coleys got most of the fuselages and Foulness had the wings and any other bits they wanted.
WJ244Early in this thread it was mentioned that the only flyer went to Foulness Island for explosive testing. It actually survived there for a long time sitting alongside the Bristol 188 which was rescued and is now at Cosford.
I believe suggestions were made that the TSR2 should be rescued as well and I don’t think it was long after that they blew her up (strange that!).
In the late 70’s lorryloads of scrap left Foulness and for some reason often stopped overnight in the old goods yard at Rochford station very near to Southend Airport. Some of the sections on the lories were allegedly from incomplete TSR2’s so did the bits broken up at Brooklands/Weybridge find their way to Foulness and get moved on again all those years later?
WJ244Interested to see the opinion on this thread re prices.
In the diecast model world Ebay appears to have driven prices down on many new items.
Swapmeet/toy fair traders had been making it difficult for shops to earn a living for years by offering unrealistic discounts that anyone paying rent and rates on a shop couldn’t possibly afford to match and now it seems there are people on ebay making it hard for the toy fair traders.
Admittedly the mass stock dumping that has gone on for years now by Corgi didn’t help anyone but when I see ebay traders listing and often landing up selling even the discounted dumped stock for less than the price I know they paid for it at a trade supplier I wonder why they ever bother to buy more stock to continue trading.
Please no one out there come back saying thay must have a special supplier who does them a really good deal. Those stories are myths – having been a model dealer for over 25 years I have dealt with every trade suppier under the sun in the UK and abroad and there aren’t deals to be had out there which allow anyone to sell that cheaply.
To go back to aerojumbles – I think that there are so many aviation collectables which are better viewed in the flesh rather than in a photo that there will always be a place for aerojumbles. Unfortunately lower takings are a general trend in most retail businesses at present and particularly in the collecting world in general. There is no easy solution it is just a case of hanging in there and doing your best or calling it a day.
WJ244Sorry two posts on the trot but I have been waiting a few days for my registration to be confirmed.
My late father was stationed at Bari in Italy in about 1944 (575 Squadron I think). The station had Caproni CA311’s in RAF markings which were flown by Italian crews possibly with some RAF personnel supervising.
There was quarry at the end of the runway and much of the airfield scrap ended up in the quarry. He had photos of a Bulgarian Air Force Yak 9 which landed one day. I believe the pilot defected to the west. The aircraft was burnt to try to hide the fact that it had ever been there and the remains were dumped in the quarry.
Unfortunately the photos disappeared when my family cleared the house so I can’t post them here.
WJ244About 10 years ago I was employed by a friend to help relaunch Hawke Racing Cars with a new Formula Renault Sport single seater. He employed a man called John Grant to work on building the prototype.
John had worked for John Wyer in the days of the Ford GT40. JW Automotive worked out of Fprd Advanced Vehicles at Slough and I believe the building subsequently became a lorry factory. He reckoned the building had been used for aircraft manufacture during WW2 and that there was a network of catacombs underneath which in the 60’s still contained aircraft parts and allegedly at least one dismantled WW2 bomber. He claimed that in the 60’s there was even an inventory of the parts in the cellars still in the foremans office.
I have no idea if there is any truth in this at all but I do know that he definitely worked there as he had photos showing him as a fairly young lad standing in his overalls in a group with other JWA employees.
I am very sceptical but John was not an aircraft enthusiast and the information came out purely as a result of a chance remark during a conversation so there may be some truth in it.
I did do a little research at the time and as far as I remember I discovered that the factory was still standing but had been heavily extended. I suppose there is just a chance the entrance to the cellars got sealed up during the extensions or maybe even got filled with concrete so who knows maybe there is still something down there.
I think I also wrote to at least one aviation magazine about the story but never got a reply so it was probably assumed that I was a crank or attention seeker. I am neither but perhaps someone out there has the time and contacts to look into this further if they feel it may be worthwhile. If someone does take this up and it turns out to be a complete waste of time then I apologise but I did think the story was worth an airing – maybe someone else out there knows a bit more than I do.
WJ244Hope these two from Biggin Hill are of interest.
The area behind the Surrey and Kent Flying Club hangar and over towards Air Touring Services used to be a haven for derelict aircraft.
The Beagle is B218 G-ASMK taken in May 1974. I think the Dove G-ARTS was over towards the area where the civil tower used to be and I assume I took it the same day.
WJ244It’s N7614C(44-31171)ex Jeff Hawke. it was used in 1970 to film BOAC Boeing 747 G-AWNB over the Atlantic. It sat at Luton Airport from 12.07.1970 then to Dublin on 07.07.1973. It was ferried to Prestwick on 08.12.1973 and finally to Shoreham on 04.04.1974 apparently owing £1,242 in accrued parking fees. It was flown by Brian Hopkins of Miles-Dufon Ltd said to be owned by Anthony Isaacs for camera ship use. It was subject of a High court case over parking fee dispute. It was donated to Duxford in 1976 and had a nose wheel donated from the Southend museum B-25,due to sea air corrision.
This is the B-25 suspended from the American museum roof at Duxford.
Am I right in understanding from the above that N7614C had a nosewheel swap at Duxford. If so this is the second time it has used the nose leg from the Southend Mitchell.
N7614C originally came to the UK to film air to air shots of a BOAC Boeing 747 for BOAC publicity film. During filming the Mitchell had a noseleg problem and borrowed the noseleg from N9089Z/HD368 at Southend for a while. At that time N9089Z was painted in RAF colours at Southend but still had the camera nose from her last job as Camera Ship for The War Lover and 633 Squadron. In return for the loan of the nose leg 9089Z acquired another more authentic nose.
As a teenager I was a volunteer at the Historic Aircraft Museum, Southend and sometimes helped out Stan and David Brett who were the driving force behind the restoration of 9089Z. When we got her into the museum compound she was home to entire squadrons of starlings and Stan and David reskinned a good deal of the underside of the wings where the birds nests had corroded everything away from the inside. It was a thankless task particularly as much of the work was done in the winter and with no power tools. It is a shame the old lady landed up in such a bad way again.
Her problem has always been that her mainspar was cut when she was moved to Southend from Biggin Hill. Appparently the spar bolts refused to move so the foreman of the Aviation Traders crew who dismantled her is allegedly the man who made the decision to cut the spar. Once the spar was cut she became pretty undesirable as the prospects of a return to the air at any point in the future were reduced to pretty much nill.
I saw her at North Weald a few years ago and the inside looked gutted. The new owners have an uphill struggle and I wish them all the best.
Somewhere I have a photo of her at Biggin before the BHAM acquired her. when I can find it I will gladly post it if anyone is interested.
This is my first post so hope it is of interest to someone out there.
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