The Remain camp did a stunningly lacklustre job of promoting the (then) status quo. If we take the phrase ‘ignorant and racist’ to basically mean an unthinking corner of the populous then I think the Remain camp had similar people; it is just that unthinking left-wing views (think protesting students) are somehow deemed more palatable. Both sides are replete with people that don’t really want to entertain dissenting views.

Just a thought, but of the 17 million Leave voters, neither the Labour or Conservative parties really seems to be representing them particularly well. Both parties seem aligned ninety degrees with the public, who are aligned more into the In and Out than traditional Left and Right camps. For example, UKIP has been steadily scalping votes off of the working class North, who traditionally voted for Labour (in any manifestation). Looking back it seems odd to me that the Leave vote was synonymous with right wing politics, really. Corbyn has been a Eurosceptic in the past, which might account for his fairly tepid Remain performance. Was there no scope for a leftist Leave camp? There might be scope for a right wing Leavers coalition of UKIP and the Leavers (or Leaves? Leavists?) within the Conservative party. Likewise the unhappy Blairites in the PLP and the Remain camp of the Conservatives might be better suited together in a new party? Either way both parties are fragmenting at a fairly unfortunate time, and I’m not sure who within UKIP can fill Farage’s shoes. Nuttall seemed the most obvious and least eccentric choice, but he has backed out.

I voted remain and my partner voted to leave. She made an interesting point, which I couldn’t really counter at all. A lot of left-leaning people our age are broadly in favour of de-centralising power and control to a local level. This broadly makes sense. For example, people we know in the North of Italy complain about their tax money being wasted on transport infrastructure in the South of the country. Likewise 45% of people in Scotland appear to think we would better manage our own affairs than Whitehall (assuming there is no latent anti-English sentiment at play of course, lol). Why, on the one hand, do people want to be able to manage their own affairs on a local scale but at the same time want to remain part of a political and legislative behemoth based on a separate land mass? I cannot explain it. What I can explain is my distaste at some of the Remainers I know personally. They spent the weekend of the 25th lambasting anybody and everybody that voted for Brexit, angrily pillorying them as old, ignorant and racist. By Monday the 27th they were still pulling the superiority card by apologising faux-sincerely for any upset they might have caused their closeted Leave-voting friends and relatives. Scarcely a day has passed since when they haven’t been circulating some pointless petition or whiney article asking for a re-run. It seems that they cannot accept that they are a minority and that there is more to this country than just them. Odd really.

So, if a person disagrees with you they’re a moron?

Try harder. It isn’t simply a matter of disagreement. Read RpR’s wilfully ignorant posts, and his pathetic, inflammatory debating style.

Well said Bruce. At least I tried. From some of the preceding posts I guess it won’t be long before the instant experts plus the guy who has a mate down the pub who knows someone who he thinks once said he worked on Hunters a long time ago come along to enlighten us all.

I was wryly amused by a poster in one of the first Shoreham threads who claimed to have managed to recreate the accident in a Flight Sim using a Hunter model.

I think it is possible to carefully discuss the potential outcome in the event of 1) pilot error being identified as the cause or 2) an malfunction is identified within the Hunter. Even if 3) the AAIB cannot come up with a conclusive outcome this is a result in and of itself.

Nice Bulldog! I like them in that scheme. The F35s are interesting as well. I got a glimpse of them, and the Hawk trailing them, following their flypast at Rosyth.

Find it a bit hard to reach back there these days?

How did I know that you’d respond ? Tell me, what is a ‘logical fallacy’ ?

Google it. You will be asking me to wipe your **** soon as well.

A curious bi-product of the second Gulf War has been the overall improvement of infrastructure mapping in Iraq. I’ve spoken to a guy who works out the back of a pickup truck over there, and they map safe routes for convoys, supply lines and such. At times these guys speak to locals to find out where ISIS have been operating, as ISIS don’t tend to plant IEDs on these routes.