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Andraxxus

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  • September 22, 2012 at 12:29 pm in reply to: F-15 vs. Su-27 #2305729
    Andraxxus
    Participant

    Also, F-15 lacks leading edge flaps which reduces both critical AOA and lift at higher AOA, hence lower max available turn rates.

    September 21, 2012 at 2:03 am in reply to: F-15 vs. Su-27 #2306301
    Andraxxus
    Participant

    I don’t think he would think so, nor would I or most other people on this forum. Why would anyone believe ancient F-104s or F-5s are so much better than modern generation aircraft?:confused:

    That was my point actually. USAF backed F-15s defeating MiG-21/23s is not a big suprise either. Drawing conclusions from this alone is nonsense, as VVS backed Su-27s can defeat F-104 or F-5E equipped airforce just as easily.

    Yes, and there’s a lot more that goes into it than just AWACs and ELINTs. No longer just a pilot’s situational awareness. It’s all about battlefield situation awareness. It’s not a one vs. one fight to victory in modern warfare. The airforce with the better situational awareness and the ability to effectively command units to adjust to it will dictate the terms of the fight. They will not engage unless they have the favorable angle of attack.

    That was not my point, see whom I replied to. You are right about one thing, side with better C3I will have one advantage, but if the exact same side also has number, training and 20+ year tech advantage, along with numerous force multipliers, that side would almost seem invulnerable.

    Thread title ” Su-27 vs F-15″.

    Now tell me what scenario they would have met in.

    On one occasion -according to Yefim Gordon’s Flankers book- Su-33s were intercepted by Israeli defence forces. A single IDF fighter attemped to force a Su-33 down on Israeli territory, and pilot had to outmaneuver the IDF fighter to escape. IDF operates F-15I does it not? And since then, both aircraft is exported to various countries. IMHO its not that unlikely for them to face each other.

    I think comparison between two aircraft should involve only those two aircraft: Their tech specs, costs, reliability etc. Training, their respective airforces’ abilities or history etc, has nothing to do with the system itself. Most people agree Su-27 has some advantage againist F-15 at CAC. How about BVR? How does baseline N001V compete againist baseline APG-63? How does R-27RE/TE/AE compete againist AIM-120B/C? That would be a more informative and interesting discussion than just saying “wars are not won by a single aircraft” or “there is no point in discussing as these wont encounter each other”.

    September 20, 2012 at 3:38 pm in reply to: F-15 vs. Su-27 #2306549
    Andraxxus
    Participant

    First post:D

    This has been up countless times.
    The design of choice gives the Flanker an edge on lower altitude and speed regimes.

    Haavarla, your second image is from LOMAC game simulation, and while others are valid and provide accurate data about Su-27, Russian estimates about F-15 were far off. Just compare sustained turn rates with this.
    [ATTACH]208356[/ATTACH]
    So I took the liberty of plotting TsAgi data for Su-27 and USAF data for F-15C together.
    Su-27 – F-15 Clean, Sea level.
    [ATTACH]208358[/ATTACH]
    Up until 600km/h, Su-27 has higher sustained turn rate than F-15C’s instantenious turn rate at same airspeed. IMHO, that explains the maneuverability difference at this altitude quite easily.

    Su-27 – F-15 Clean 30k feet. (I had to interpolate Su-27 data for 9144 m as it doesnt provide that)
    [ATTACH]208357[/ATTACH]
    -Su-27 has higher available turn rate at all speeds, and both have comperable (only up to ~1 deg/s difference) sustained turn rates. Like Haavarla said, Su-27 does slightly better at slower speeds and F-15C gains a slight advantage at transonic and low supersonic speeds.

    I only know that the f-15 has never been beaten in real combat.

    Put all upgrades, training, numbers or maintanence issues aside. Do you think an airforce using equally numerous equally maintained F-104s and F-5s could have won againist baseline Su-27s, MiG-31s and MiG-29s, with AWACS and ELINT support on their backs?

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