TeerWhat do you mean when you say micropower plants?
I mean small turbofans for long range cruise missiles.
Teerok, they are both AESA radars with TRMs from Selex, with some input from SMW.
Both companies have done commersial AESAs in the past and are still selling those. This is a normal project under normal circomstances for both these companies..Whats the problem?
One question, are there any Brazilian companies making radars? I mean, TOT is all fine, but there should be somebody able to “take it”, eg for the airframe and ancillaries, Embraer and its partners can pick it up. But what about the avionics, and the high end items like the radar? I might be totally wrong, but following Brazils commercial industry, it appears they mostly rely on western avionics fits for the most part & may not have developed a local capability?
TeerUsman, beautiful pics. And those ROSE Mirages look excellent w/the backdrop. Are there any high resolution images of them against the desert etc? It’ll be a shame when these finally retire, since the Mirage 3 remains a classic.
TeerEven if 90% of the things he said is BS it is a fact that DACT with F 22s helped them handle the Su 30 MKI better. It was also acknowledged by another less cocky pilot.
Then they need far more DACT since the WVR ratio in the 1vs1s at Mountain Home was 21:1, and even the 1 part of the ratio representing “no calls” ie disputed results. Plus even the MKI TVC figures & numbers he gave were pretty wrong, though he seems to have revealed the F-22 numbers (something about which the USAF was probably none too pleased I’d guess).
OT, but the only one thing he was fairly correct about was the risk of Israeli jammers etc in BVR, angle. Thats a real issue & can be validated by many things, perhaps best discussed on the MMRCA thread..
TeerSo by that logic any country which does not have 5th generation fighters should avoid participating in international exercises?
No, but it does make that comment about “F-16s arent the only PAF fighters with advanced avionics” hyperbole.
What Ankush is accurately pointing out is that the F-16s themselves dont really have that advanced avionics vis a vis todays aircraft (unless PAF sent 6 Block 52+ types which I doubt are in service, yet) and the other PAF Mirages are likewise. I mean, even the A2A ROSE Mirages are at best, limited upgrades & dont have some really necessary capabilities eg BVR.
Avionics are not the only consideration either, unlike what redgriffin implies.
Note, India sends its Su’s and Mirages for exercises, not the Bisons, which in someways are ahead of the ROSE Mirages in terms of avionics. And in prior cases, it appears to have sent non upgraded Jaguars abroad as well. Clearly its not the avionics alone that count. Thats what makes redgriffin’s comments somewhat dubious.
TeerHello Teer,
I have been looking around the web for quite sometime for info about the NRI recruitment in DRDO and that is when I stumbled upon your words here. I am a NRI working in USA. Have applied for a scientist position in DRDO. As of now things look okay. Hoping to get an interview call. Just so that I am prepared, from your contacts could you please find me some info about the interview process. What they focus on and the normal procedure? It has been a while since I have gone through this process.
Thanks
RTwoI – sorry for missing this. Sent a PM but its not much apologies in advance..
Moderators: Sorry for the OT
TeerThe F414 EPE may actually improve SH performance in hot and high conditions..which is a plus, as the politicians anyways want to buy US…
TeerWho cares about the politics sh*t? Seriously, those who have an agenda there are not going to be “convinced” the opposite by their peers. This goes for Scooter as well as for Teer. Better stop it before it gets you worked up too much and in trouble.
If you think that politics and defence purchases dont go hand in hand, then you have a lot to learn, or be disappointed about…
Arguing about which plane is gee whiz on paper is all well & good but real world procurement is going to be based on a set of priorities which may override the paper specs. Eitherways, FYI, the MMRCA deal is one in which the GOI has declared that “strategic factors” will be taken into account.
Which means…politics.
The MMRCA, in many ways, is a test case of whether capabilities will be the decider, or cost, or technology access..or none of these & politics swings the deal.
We do know, that the US like to put certain restrictions on the equipment they sell. It’s nothing new. And we have no detailed picture how those restrictions are in this case.
Gee wow, thanks for telling us that. Perhaps that was the point of me pointing out prior cases from a wide cross section of nations which include nations which both pursue independent foreign policies (eg Malaysia) & those which are close allies of the US (eg UK) and which are still facing technology access & political issues.
TeerYes, and the Biggest Stick will be the Super Hornet. Combined with a strong Strategic Alliance with the US.
Scooter, the US, openly supporting India in any conflict vs Pak or China…it wont happen. Just look at the recent Obama visit to the PRC and who called the shots. The economic meltdown has changed things, at least for the short term over this decade..
TeerThe IAF need to think assymetric! instead of bomb trucks think, cruise missiles attached to UCAVS. Mass produced UCAV’s and cruise missiles have a few tens of thousands of them with a 2K+ km range
Indian private industry can build them today..
We cant, at least not today…a critical tech we lack..a range of micropower plants..
TeerDo you really envisage a conflict with China before 2020 ? In that case it is very possible that only half of the MRCA would be inducted by that date as well.
Guys, the only way a conflict with PRC can be avoided is if there are strong capabilities built up (and a will to use them).
Furthermore, as 26/11 showed, peace talks and a tendency to roll over are very counterproductive. Hence, a conflict with Pak is very probable. Its but a question of when, as the outrages have just kept escalating & even India’s impotent, confused political leadership will be forced to react.
The way things are going, the next attack will be more horrific than 26/11 and after sleeping on the job for the past six odd years, the GOI is not by any means certain to stop the next attacks. The arrest of Tawahur Rana & Headley in the US was happenstance, but it shows the wheels in motion.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Tahawwur-bigger-Lashkar-catch-feel-investigators/articleshow/5227983.cms
http://news.rediff.com/report/2009/nov/16/headley-rana-were-in-pakistan-during-mumbai-terror-attack-says-centre.htm
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Headley-Rana-may-have-been-part-of-26/11-plot/articleshow/5241252.cms
These guys were by no means the only team casing soft Indian targets. Besides the incompetence of the GOI, which has only now woken upto the terror threat (after throwing everything from the past admin into the toilet, including POTA), India is simply too large and its ratio of law enforcement to population is amongst the lowest in the world (vs developed nations).
So the IAF needs to keep its powder dry as older airframes retire. The Indian Army modernisation is stuck badly vis a vis planned goals (apart from armour), and it will fall to the IAF to do the heavy lifting in a short intense conflict.
Teddy Roosevelt said:”Speak softly and carry a big stick”- we need that big stick and it should be free of political leverage that may prevent its use.
TeerGripen being cheaper may be purchased in higher numbers than the bigger Euro Canards and for the PLAAF there is always the MKI and the FGFA.
Gripen – note above posts, also note US content – substantial percentage.
FGFA – no chance (IMHO) that it will even arrive in definitive form before 2015 (optimistic) – 2020.
TeerIAF needs to buy the Mig -35’s if they are that much cheaper than the EF 2000 then India will save money it can put into the MCA/FGFA/PAK FA or what ever when it buys its 126 aircraft.
Point is they are cheaper upfront…thats about it. But its handing Russia the keys to the bank when it comes to strategic leverage, ALL our fighters bar the LCA will be Russian then..
And MiG is not in the best of health either to develop the design further and keep it relevant.
Not to mention that as far as designs go, its still a paper design and is yet to demonstrate a fraction of the capabilities its peers have inducted, this include the Vipers, Hornets, EF and Rafale.
the only volume capable AESA and meteor isnt so bad.. heavier is MKI thats the point of it.
The AESA alone wont cut it, also what matters is range versus payload. Plus dependency on the Meteor…given how expensive that Silver bullet is turning out to be (over 1 million pounds last I heard & it surely will go beyond even that), it cannot be the standard A2A weapon to give the Gripen NG equivalence versus heavier fighters.
Simply put, when the IAF wanted more Mirage 2000Vs as the MRCA because of which people say the Gripen NG is closest to that requirement…things were different. The PAFs firm procurement plan was next to non existent and the PLAAFs vision was unclear. Now its known that the PAF will get Block 52+ Vipers and J-10s, but more importantly, the PLAAF is standardizing around Flanker variants AND deploying huge numbers of S-3XX SAMs. These make a Mirage 2000V style platform, even more modern, of limited use.
India needs an advanced bomb truck with sufficient loiter time, also able to defeat today and tomorrow’s PLAAF air to air assets with a wide array of affordable munitions.
I am not sure that the Gripen NG can meet that need.
TeerThe US policy is not as cheerful as you’d think. It is in best US interest to press down local efforts to produce, procure and export indigenous designs and they often push this strategy very violently. There are numerous cases where US development aid has turned into fierce endeavour to kill indigenous development and industry by turning them into licensed manufacturers, certified part suppliers or developers of globally meaningless designs. F-CK-1, L-159, AT-3, F-2 or Lavi are prime examples. We might argue about whether this is right or wrong but it’s certainly not what India aims for.
Oh yeah, absolutely. KA-50 radar issue as well.
I am a big fan of the US in most things – like the country a fair bit, its just that dealing with a hyper/super-power is not without risks…and they need to be taken into account.
Oh one more point.
Recently, a whistleblower pointed out India’s thermo nuke tests were…not successful.
For Pak, the fission bombs are enough. For PRC, they might well not be. So, if India decides it has to test AGAIN….
..what happens to that HUGE fleet of shiny, fancy, Vipers or Super Hornets?
Sanctions, anyone?
TeerWell, I think its up to India to decide what’s in her best interests. Also, I as I stated the US is the Largest Arms Exporter and the so called strings are not hurting there business. Which, says volumes…….
Respectfully,
Scooter
BTW My last comment on the subject.
It indeed is upto India – and lets leave that aside for the time being to focus on your largest exporter bit, which again you choose to overlook my counterpoint.
That a large volume of exports to nations such as KSA, Japan, South Korea etc which are ok with US strategic policy –for the most part– and are dependent on its security cover, is not germane to Indian needs and requirements.
India & the US do not – as the prior account shows – see eye to eye on Pak. Its not happening now, it didnt happen “then”, when the most pro India US Admin in decades (GWB) was in power. And now with Obama in power, things are not going to be ANY better.
Given that, for India to go and make a decision of this magnitude, ie mortgage a full third of its strike, air defense fleet to US interests – is fool hardiness.
Furthermore, as the links I showed pointed out, the US has a …dubious track record when it comes to technology transfer. You have a Brazilian Brigadier, a Malaysian premier, and pre-eminent UK lawmakers ALL cribbing about the same.
Simply put, India has chances of better access from Europe, and it should go for that. Instead of first signing something & then discovering – oops ITAR or whatever
S’all I am saying..
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