No, it could not because development of the 9M96 missile family is all but complete, so little opportunity for Indian paticipation.

Heh, not to mention the radars, the TELs, the C3I hardware & software….

Not to mention the PRCs extensive exposure to the S-3XX family already…:cool:

Okay, replying point by point takes too damn long. Here is a quick response:

AND

I said the russians are catching up and the difference seems to be marginal at best. Khbiny is an example. The Avitronics guys advertise their system as capable of “geolocation” perhaps no ranging involved. But the Khbiny has this: –

From Aviapedia.com Like I said the russkies are coming along pretty quick.

My point is simple:
I simply don’t see the advantage of splurging a zillion extra bucks for a few, marginal advantages, and some unique disadvantages in terms of flight performance. In case of the former, the MiG can have the doodads in the near future. They did it with the MKI, they can do it with the fulcrum. In case of the latter, there is also that TVC advantage. At least in terms of aero performance, the teens seem to have traded it for the doodads making them the worst in the lot.

My preference is definitely euro. Even the Tiffy sounds good, but cost considerations and politics would probly mean teen series, I just hope its the Shornet.

Regards,
USS.

PS – Re MKI weights, Can you please post those or PM me if it is not exactly open source – if its not too much trouble, the internet sources drove me nuts.

USS, thanks for the info. Do you have anything apart from Aviapedia on this? Anyways let me look into this myself.

Geolocation basically means you are able to …well locate geographically, either via triangulation (multiple aircraft) or other methods, so ranging is part of the equation.

Now the entire point is that such systems were not part of the MiG-35 package but they are stated to be on offer for the Su-35, again a miniaturization, weight & power.

And I do disagree that such advantages are just minor – this is just one of the many examples & they all add up IMO.

But you are welcome to disagree.

Not really , all AESA’s have certain degree of LPI built in , i think it is upto the back end as well as the software tweaks they do , however the F-22 and F-35 are the first ALL NEW fighters built with RCS Requirment in mind (and very stringent one at that) therefore Returns both radar and IR had to be minimized , hence the LPI mode. Even LMA have publically said that in LPI mode the Apg-77 does 120nm (actually it is slightly more as the Apg-77 (first version) is performing 5% better then the requirment) however it is more in non LPI mode . I expect the -79 and -80 to be similar although they wont have as many LPI measures etc.

Bring it on

All ESAs have a certain amount of LPI characteristics – I mean, low sidelobes, very fast scan, etc.

AESAs can go one level beyond – digital beamforming & precise beam control for a quick “look” for ranging etc etc.

I’d wager the APG-63 AESAs, the APG-79 & APG-80 all have these.

Now from what I can gather (as compared to the usual BS we all know happens)- the F-22A has been widely touted to have pulse to pulse frequency agility – anyone I discussed this with, has dismissed this as fan fiction & absolutely unnecessary.

What I can gather the F-22 does, is use the ALR-94 to detect a target, range it quickly with an APG-77 beam (and a focused low power beam) & then have that data be combined in the CIP with the ALR-94 & create a track file. Once the target comes into its missile firing range or alternatively AMRAAM range, the APG-77 powers up – does another radar paint, this time at another frequency, updates the firing solution & the AMRAAM is launched.

So yeah, its LPI. I have to have a very sensitive receiver – latest gen, to pick up that narrow beam & digital signal processing to even catalogue it as fixed signal, and look out for other similar signals with the same fingerprint at even different frequencies. All the while, there is no guarantee that there is anything out there, and each time I go “all out” with my own radar set – I might end up giving that ALR-94 even better data.

So I kind of doubt whether the APG-77 is truly undetectable across all modes & usual “normal modes” like STT, TWS etc. IMO, its entire LPI nature stems from having power management and being very selective when it paints the target, and how.

Thoughts..

Sorry to tell you not everyone is fooled about the peace-loving Indian. I’m not Chinese. That’s why you can get a grip on the truth. :diablo:

Why deny your nationality now ? After all the flaming? 😀

Because you are making an a$$ out of yourself and demeaning your nation with your idiotic, bumbling posts full of meaningless hate and fury? Try TPhuangs posts above for how civilized discussion is conducted. Big lesson for you.

And no, we Indians are not just one thing, we are messy, organized, chaotic, rulebound, warlike, peaceniks, poor, rich….we are whatever we want to be..:D

Guys

Looks apart the Mi-24 is seriously dated for todays ops. Its basically a zoom-boom type of asset and cannot hover properly in hot and high conditions, and its underpowered for evasive maneuvers. This comes from the horses ie pilots mouth. I think a combo of the newer Mi-28’s/KA-52s escorting proper troop carriers is better for Spetznaz type ops than using Mi-24s.
Just my thoughts.

With the US track record of allies turning into enemies, India is probable on that list. India has a fanatical religious base that has influence. She has a horrible human and religious rights record. It’s much on par with what is criticized of Islamic countries. China’s population is no where near as radical.

LOL, propoganda 101.

Here diddums, to make you feel better.

With the US track record of trade partners turning into enemies, China is probable on that list. China has a fanatical communist base that has influence. She has a horrible human and religious rights record. It’s much on par with what is criticized of Islamic countries. India’s population is no where near as radical.

Keep up the fear mongering & you’ll only strengthen the US-India relationship. 😀

What was the other option for Scorpene , at the last moment HDW came with buy 4 get 2 free offer , but negotiation for scorpene was very advanced by then and no amount of sweet deal could have turned again in the favour of HDW , ofcourse Russia had nothing to offer then , although the cost of HDW were nearly equal to that of Scorpene.

The only advantage HDW had was its prior working Navy with Type 209 , but they really lost because they came in too late , i think it was the court order which delayed thing for them , IMO both are quality sub.

He he Austin, you do realise that the EXACT arguements you made for the MiG-35 versus the others could be made for the HDW versus the Scorpene?
Same stuff of proven supplier, existing logistics, IN experience with the type and what not.

But guess which got chosen?

Guess which item had its price raised by many many tens of % points which even the Finance Minister cribbed about?

Which item had huge cry about corruption?

And the end result, the Scorpene program still went ahead.

That is my point.

That there are MANY cases where the service preference won and was taken into account. Similarly for the MRCA, its all a combination of service preference (which will be selectively backed by the evaluation, and of course the evaluation also contributes to the preference) and then politics.

The coming 2nd line of sub will be interesting where proper HDW , Rubin and DCN will compete.

Lets see..

Any way wrong thread , But CAG have no teeth , they might cry and perhaps create awareness but their reports are non binding , good for post analysis etc.

No, you are mistaken, CAG have huge teeth, single handedly they have ruined development plans of many Govt units. And they provide good use in political terms to attack the Govt. The present Home Minister PC was (in)famous for selectively using CAG Govts on Kargil procurement to attack the previous Govt. Once he got into power, his tune changed. 😀

APG-80 Range —>

Source – AW article dated 3/13/00 pg. 24.

OFcourse this is 2000 article , i bet if LMA get their back into it , tweak the software , bring in NG mods (production standard) the performance (quality and quantity) can be improved in the 2015 timeframe (15 year after the -80) .

Any idea about the APG-63 AESA ranges (V2,V3 etc)