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  • in reply to: Indian Air Force Thread 20 #2200945
    Teer
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    IAF has already got Spyder , I dont think Pantsir system is competing in India , I think they will just buy more Spyder system

    On offer, from Defexpo earlier this year.

    http://i.imgur.com/9DoQ03z.jpg

    http://www.spsshownews.com/news/?id=95&h=Modular-Design-of-Pantsir%96S1-ADMGS

    http://www.spsshownews.com/news/images/pantsyr.jpg

    in reply to: Indian Air Force Thread 20 #2200949
    Teer
    Participant

    From our old friend SOC (who’s off doing bigger and better things than managing forum babies), from 2008:

    http://geimint.blogspot.com/2007/08/us-restricted-and-classified-test-sites.html

    It can be surmised that the US is very familiar with the S-300(PS/PMU) and its CONOPS/CONEMPS and probably routinely practice (technology and tactics) against it. It can also be surmised that the S-300 has been fully exploited and compromised. With the happenings in Ukraine, I’m pretty sure that Ukraine would use TECHINT access to their S-300 (and other Russian systems) as a means of bargaining for better access to US equipment.

    S-4XX/S-3XX PMU1/PMU2 are pretty ahead of the original S-3XX PS series & in fact, it was SOC who mentioned how the system is designed to make any sort of jamming effort very very hard thanks to its unique guidance system.

    in reply to: Indian Air Force Thread 20 #2200957
    Teer
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    What can Panstir/Tor do that SRSAM+Akash+MRSAM can’t?

    IAF has already got Spyder , I dont think Pantsir system is competing in India , I think they will just buy more Spyder system

    Zimble answer is Pantsir/Tor will be already integrated with the S-400’s battle management system and command/control/comms.

    So you can deploy the whole complex as is, without time consuming integration & concerns about overlaps or missing links. The Russians basically created one overarching system with each component having specific attributes.
    Tor/Pantsir with a focus even on PGMs attacking the complex with (relatively) less expensive rounds than SpyDer (though Akash would be cheaper stll but the integration issue would remain) and the S-4XX complex having both BMD/AD attributes.

    in reply to: Indian Air Force Thread 20 #2201135
    Teer
    Participant

    Also more fun when you have Pantsir units protecting the S-400 batteries. I wonder if India will follow Russian practice in attaching a short-er range, anti-PGM system to its strategic SAM batteries.
    They do seem interested in Tor on a wheeled chassis, though I don’t recall what role it was intended for.

    EDIT: You posted the same thing, I need to read the whole thread first.

    Ha ha yeah i was thinking the same thing. I hope IAF protects its investment and gets Panstir or Tor with it!

    in reply to: Indian Air Force Thread 20 #2201142
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    For India, countering PLAAF S-3XXs is not jousting, its a real issue since they are highly mobile units and a few can pose a significant issue for the IAF in any conflict.

    Look at their radar & missile footprint & see the Indian North East. While LOS issues may prevent optimal deployment there, in the Ladakh/Tibet sector, the S-3XX batteries will be a huge issue.

    India does not need to attack Beijing to face S-3XX given how mobile the darn thing is and PRCs investments in infrastructure.

    in reply to: Indian Air Force Thread 20 #2201155
    Teer
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    A bunch of pics emerging on FB from the Tejas team – putting their captions as well.

    https://scontent.fblr1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/13528147_1092283900866057_7286871345315976018_o.jpg

    https://scontent.fblr1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/13569026_1091994640894983_762212620643551214_o.jpg

    https://scontent.fblr1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/13580606_1092902137470900_2924053080990466932_o.jpg

    https://scontent.fblr1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/13581946_1093413760753071_7432978981518969938_o.jpg

    Tejas-PV3 (KH-2005) flight tested with one of the heavier configurations (2 X 800 Ltr DT, 2 X LGBs with Griffin kits, 2 X R-73 and the Litening Pod).

    https://scontent.fblr1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13590475_1094120504015730_1483989075009604760_n.jpg

    From the exclusive archives, we present you one of very few air-to-air shots of Tejas.
    Seen here, PV-3 (KH-2005) over Sarmat Range, Jamnagar, dropping a 1000lbs MK-11primarily to study the separation characteristics. This outing of Tejas was the first Armament detachment. All the related systems needed to be proven and valuable data were gathered during this month long detachment at AFS, Jamnagar.

    https://scontent.fblr1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/13580387_1094637467297367_6886392737527522762_o.jpg

    A historic moment for Tejas to land in Leh for the first time, way back in Jan 2009 for the winter trials.
    Seen here is LSP-2 (KH-2012) about to land at Leh for the winter trials.
    The subsequent trials at Leh in Dec 2014, Dec 2015 have yielded significant results thereby confirming the capabilities to operate at these sub-zero conditions.

    https://scontent.fblr1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/13582151_1095224813905299_5215772225869355863_o.jpg

    The sheer power of a GE engine can only be felt while standing next when she takes off with a max AB.
    Here, we present the Tejas fans with one such view.
    LSP-5 (KH-2015) taking off for another routine test flight during the all important armament detachment at AFS, Jamnagar.

    in reply to: Indian Air Force Thread 20 #2201168
    Teer
    Participant

    Austin, I wonder if the IAF plans for S-4XX come with Panstir batteries.

    BTW, the latest report on the IAF i mentioned states they are looking for 60+ flights of CIWS.

    in reply to: Indian Air Force Thread 20 #2201174
    Teer
    Participant

    Wideband noise jamming is the only realistic “brute force” jamming method against a system which has multiple emitters of various bands, considerable ECCM in each radar & on top of it, has the S-3XXs unique guidance system which compares missile and emitter information both for targeting. Which is why the Russians increased the emitted power considerably between S-3XX and S-4XX systems. Apart from the US with its Wideband LO airframes & depth of ISR/EW resources, pretty much all other nations will be strained in taking such systems on. And even the US won’t necessarily fnd it easy if Nebo-M type emitters but more imporantly “passive radars” proliferate.

    in reply to: Indian Air Force Thread 20 #2201175
    Teer
    Participant

    Big SAM any where wont operate alone eg S-3/4xx will have its own layer of BUK ,SHORAD and VSHORAD add to that extensive ground based Radar/ EW system and CAP ..that would pretty much the case with even IAF operating layers SAM network and EW system/CAP ….add to that the advantage of operation on your own home turf for a defensive system and the extensive mobility.

    Yes, all this is hypothetically speaking. Targeting any S-3XX SAM is a huge issue.

    in reply to: Indian Air Force Thread 20 #2201202
    Teer
    Participant

    The only “simple” way to take down a S-3XX/S-4XX system without investing in tons of wideband jamming (deception, noise) – the latter more likely than the former if multiple radars are present (even though the burn through range will be substantial) & then MALD type decoys + long range SEAD/DEAD weapons is to attack the control cabins. Easier said than done with decoys around & if the Russians have incorporated backups with the radars directly able to cue batteries & control then, more fun.

    in reply to: Indian Air Force Thread 20 #2201240
    Teer
    Participant

    Basically Akash NGs performance will be in line with Buk M2E (albeit not clearly mentioned with a SRBM role) or have individual TELARs on high mobility vehicles.
    Most likely will follow the current Akash architecture but with AESA radars such as this one, a SEOS (http://www.drdo.gov.in/drdo/pub/npc/2016/february/din-09Feb2016.pdf) & ARH missile

    in reply to: Indian Air Force Thread 20 #2201242
    Teer
    Participant

    Akash next gen being developed. Will definitely be another step forward for local radars and missile development. This is in addition to the DRDO QRSAM which will be a 25km mobile SAM system meant for the Army & the MBDA-DRDO SRSAM (for the Navy, based on the Mica but with Indian radars)

    Current orders for Akash are 14 squadrons for IAF & 2 Regiments (around 8 squadron) for IA.

    http://brahmand.com/news/Next-generation-development-of-Akash-missile-system-on-BEL/14937/1/13.html

    BENGALURU (PTI): Terming as “satisfactory” the performance of Akash missile that has been inducted into the Indian Army and Air Force, Bharat Electronics Limited (BEL) has said the development of the weapon system’s next generation is currently underway.

    “As far as Akash is concerned, the system which has now been inducted into the Indian Army and Air Force is to a large extent satisfactory. In fact, further induction is going to happen in the Air force,” BEL CMD S K Sharma told reporters in Bengaluru on Wednesday.

    “Future improvement of the project is on, and it is being done along with DRDO. Certain new generation radars and indigenous missile seekers are introduced for the Akash system.

    There are various such improvements, but it is still in the development phase,” he added.

    http://www.oneindia.com/india/akash-ng-be-ready-two-years-bel-chief-2122171.html

    Bengaluru, June 8: The next-generation Akash-NG missile will be ready for user trials in the next two years. Addressing the media during here on Wednesday, Bharat Electronics Limited (BEL) Chairman and Managing Director S K Sharma said that the upgraded version will have a new radar and seeker.

    “We are working on it along with DRDO on this advanced version. It will have a better range (around 40 km). The IAF and Army have already inducted Akash Missile Systems (AMS) and they are satisfactory,” Sharma said to a specific query from OneIndia. He also said that around 90 per cent of complete systems and components used in AMS are indigenous.

    Payloads for DRDO’s UAV programmes To another query on BEL’s foray into the Unmanned Aerial Vehicle (UAV) segment, Sharma said the Company is currently involved with three programmes. “We are certainly involved in one project of DRDO (Rustom) and another two projects. We are not making the UAVs, but would provide the payloads. Around seven to eight percent of our business in the current year will come from new products,” Sharma added.[/quote]

    BEL at ES

    Akash on display [ES2016D4]

    Indian defence electronics giant Bharat Electronics Ltd (BEL) produces more than 350 systems across the defence and civilian domains, and a small selection is on display at Eurosatory (Hall 5, Stands J847/H848).

    The company is highlighting the Akash air defence system, in which BEL plays a major role.

    Akash is a medium-range system comprising a Rajendra 3D passive electronically scanned array radar and up to four interlinked launchers, each with three ready-to-fire missiles, and a command centre.

    Other radars and command units can also be integrated with the baseline system. Akash officially entered service with the Indian Air Force in 2012, and with the Indian Army in May 2015. The army version is designed for high mobility, and to keep in convoy with mobile forces. The launcher and radar are based on a T-72 chassis.

    Other BEL products on display comprise a range of radars, including through-wall, battlefield surveillance, ground penetrating, weapon locating and troop control systems.

    An array of electronic warfare and airborne products is being showcased, including elements of the Rustom II UAV system being developed in India.

    Communications systems on display include software-defined radios, alongside electro-optic products such as thermal imagers and night vision goggles.

    http://www.janes.com/images/assets/449/61449/Akash-on-display-_ES2016D4_.jpg

    http://www.janes.com/article/61449/akash-on-display-es2016d4

    in reply to: Indian Air Force Thread 20 #2201394
    Teer
    Participant

    This is something India is still working on in the first phase…

    http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/defense/2014-07-13/airbus-ds-refines-passive-radar-explores-civil-use

    Airbus D&S Refines Passive Radar, Explores Civil Use
    by Chris Pocock
    – July 13, 2014, 1:05 PM

    At the recent ILA Berlin Airshow, Airbus Defence & Space reported progress with the passive radar [alternatively, passive coherent location (PCL)] system that predecessor company Cassidian had been developing since 2006. Frank Bernhardt, project manager, said that the company has “worked closely” with two armed forces on tests of the system. One of them is Germany. Airbus D&S has also gained a study contract with the UK Civil Aviation Authority to explore the ATC applications of passive radar.

    Bernhardt reported that a second sensor van was added to the system last year, thus providing more ellipsoids and improving accuracy. The system has been adapted to work with DAB+ signals, with DVB-T2 to come. “I believe we are still the only ones to have fused three bands,” he added. The system can process eight FM transmitters, plus one each of DAB+ and DVB-T. Airbus D&S claims a detection range of up to 200 km (FM) for larger aircraft, and an accuracy of 10 m (DAB/DVB-T). The recent test used two light aircraft and a Learjet 35 as targets.

    The attractions of passive radar are many, according to Bernhardt. “You don’t know where it is, you don’t know how many [detectors] there are and you can’t jam it,” he said. “There’s no turning radar antenna, so we spend 100 percent time-on-target, with an update rate of 0.5 seconds instead of six seconds,” he continued. “Moreover, there is no need to secure frequency allocation and approval from governments,” he added.

    The UK CAA is interested in the potential for passive radar to release precious bandwidth for other uses, Bernhardt said. The new contract will also explore how the system could be placed in built-up areas without creating emissions, unlike a radar system.

    According to Airbus D&S, several cost-effective passive-radar sensors using a number of emitters could broaden the basis for detection of aircraft approaching an airport. Placing several such sensors intelligently could also eliminate the problem of confusing echoes and interference from the increasing number of wind farms that are afflicting conventional ATC radars, the company added. Interestingly, since the system needs no cooperation from aircraft transponders, it might have provided clues to the fate of Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370, had it been deployed in the relevant area.

    in reply to: Indian Air Force Thread 20 #2201400
    Teer
    Participant

    Naval Barak-8, shows the use of a term advanced, stand-alone datalink. Somehow the verbiage makes me suspect that its an independent datalink & not one via the main radar guidance.
    http://www.iai.co.il/Sip_Storage//FILES/4/40344.pdf

    Also, given the land based Barak-8 is none other the same missile for land based missions – going so far as to use the same radar variant, I’d suppose navy datalinks are indeed seperate & mounted high on the APAR mast though for good coverage.

    in reply to: Indian Air Force Thread 20 #2201449
    Teer
    Participant

    I have seen photos of the 64N6E in China, not sure about 91N6E. I wouldn’t really call the radar an option, it is key to the S-400s performance, but is deployed at the command level. You won’t have one tagging along with each battery.
    92N6 is of course in every battery, and 96L6 generally is deployed at the battery level as well.

    Nebo-M and all that associated madness is optional, no way it is part of the S-400 deal unless the price is absurdly beyond other customers.
    But India should definitely pursue the option in the coming years, would make their airspace hostile to low RCS intruders, with great mobility to boot. Even S-400 alone will be a titan’s leap for ground-based AD in India.

    The promotional material I have seen shows Big Bird (S) and 92N6 (X) radars as standard fit.
    I do hope India picks up Nebo-M. Agree with you and Austin, that it would be a huge plus & the S-400 itself would be a giant step forward. Even with only 5 batteries.

Viewing 15 posts - 31 through 45 (of 1,980 total)